‘They Have His BLOOD on Their Hands!’ Charlie Kirk With Megyn Kelly, Jeffree Star & Nancy Mace

These people have Charlie Kirk's blood on their hands. I don't believe there's any reforming these people. I don't believe there's any shaming these people. I think these people need to be defeated.

You've posted some messages about Charlie Kirk on your Instagram and you're laughing.

If he had spent a modicum of his time focusing on the white youth, that perhaps he would still be with us today.

Charlie was a friend, a mentor of mine. He's sit here today and listened to the discussions. I mean, I am just like in total disbelief.

I've been told all week he would have hated someone like you. No, he would have respected me because I'm my own person and I know how to have my own thoughts.

I can't even go to the grocery store alone anymore. I can't even walk my dog without a gun.

President Trump is in the UK for an historic second state visit. The world's most famous royal family is hosting the world's most famous president for a trip that was supposed to be about diplomacy and unity, but they're not really words anyone's using right now. It's one week since Charlie Kirk was assassinated. His alleged killer, Tyler Robinson, had no reaction, as he learned he could now face the firing squad.

For the court's information, we did file just recently,

within the last few minutes, a notice of intent to seek the death penalty.

Well, prosecutors have released chilling text messages which appear to show that Robinson confessed to the murder to his transgender roommate and boyfriend. I had enough of this hatred, Robinson said. Some hate can't be negotiated out. Everything we know about Robinson so far, from his family's evidence to the messages scrawled on bullets, point to a screamingly

obvious motive. But with each new revelation, many legacy media pundits have sought to minimize

their relevance. It's not really helpful for the tone and tenor of the radicalization of our country right now. We've seen time and time again over the last year community have been blam of things. And so I think out there and if you look you see a lot of people p far right, they're looking

trans people. It's not he

I mean, just law enforcem don't think we know the m message. We know the meaning of his message. We know his history.

No, no, no.

Mellon Chow is an anti-fascist thing.

It says fascists catch this.

Then I'll give you his history, right? Think about his history.

His history, but this is not the point.

Why are we debating this?

This is what I'm talking about.

This is what I'm talking about.

This is my point, not yours. This was my point, not yours.

The point is, who cares?

A kid. This is probably his first real relationship and somebody was disparaging the person that he loved. He sat on that building for 30 minutes before he took the shot. Why did he wait until the first word trans came up? Then he took the shot.

You think he heard it? He could hear it?

I think he could hear it. I think he also... I don't believe he was motivated politically. I think this was motivated emotionally.

What? The hypocrisy is astounding. But what it's worth, I don't think tying these tragedies to party politics is particularly helpful. The common theme is deeply disturbed people who spend too much time on the dark corners of the internet and have no purpose in life. But if a liberal star had been gunned down by a Christian Family Values assassin from the right,

how many of these people would now be yelling, who cares? And didn't President Biden hold a national address to say MAGA Republicans were the nation's greatest danger? If you care about motives, it works both ways. And on the subject of dishonesty and hypocrisy, the Attorney General Pam Bondi is facing a

bipartisan backlash for saying this. There's free speech and then there's hate speech. And there is

no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie, in our society.

Do you see more law enforcement going after these groups who are using hate speech and putting cuffs on people so we show them that some action is better than no action?

We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech, anything.

And that's across the aisle.

There is no First Amendment... Why am I telling this to the American attorney aisle. There is no First Amendment, why am I telling this to the American Attorney General? There is no First Amendment exception for hate speech, as many guests have reminded me on the show since we launched. You can and should be repulsed by the people

mocking Charlie Kirk and his grieving family. But the organized witch hunt, searching for reasons to hound them out of their jobs, feels a little bit too close to the cancel culture that the right, quite rightly, have always tried to resist. Let's not forget that Charlie Kirk died

fighting that kind of culture. Well, joining me now is the host of the Megyn Kelly Show, Megyn Kelly. Megyn, great to have you on our show. So I just want to start by saying how sorry I am to you on a personal level for the loss of Charlie Kirk because I watched you on the day it happened.

I saw how emotional you were. I saw how much this had personally affected you. And it really moved me. And so just on a human level, I'm just, I'm really sorry for you and your loss at losing your friend.

Just turning to the reaction though, so many parts of this really concern me. Obviously the killing itself, horrific that someone should be shot dead for their opinions. The way that so many on the woke left, young people, so gleefully raced to celebrate this on social media, joyously celebrating and reveling in this brutal murder of a young father. And then to watch the very liberal skewed mainstream media, you and I've talked about this a lot, but look at the tortured ways they are trying so hard to avoid saying

the obvious about this shooter and trying to find something, anything to excuse what he did. All of it is grotesque.

Yeah, first of all, thank you for that, Piers. It was a devastating day and unlike anything I've ever experienced or want to experience again. You know, Charlie and I weren't the kind of friends who were meeting for dinner, but I'd had him on my show over 15 times in the past year and a half. Like, I'd had him on my show over 15 times in the past year and a half.

Like I'd had him on tons of times. I'd been on his show tons of times. We did a bunch of turning point events together and I spoke with him many times backstage. And so I felt like I knew him as a friend and knew what he stood for.

Not to mention all the countless hours I've seen him on these college campuses and all the prep you do when somebody's coming on your show. So I do feel like I knew who he was. I really do. And he was total goodness. I mean, he was truly a happy warrior. The picture that's being painted of him

by his detractors now bears no resemblance whatsoever to the man I knew. And they didn't, they didn't. Because I see, the few who will bother to offer evidence of their views that he was this terrible guy, a racist, what have you, it's helpful. I appreciate when they say why they thought that,

because I'm familiar with almost all of the incidents that they use to batter Charlie, and they're fake. It's fake news. Charlie was honestly the most optimistic person in our movement. I mean, I was saying to Tucker last night,

I say to you too, I think the rest of us are way more cynical mofos than Charlie ever was. You know, we've been in the business a long time. We're pretty cynical. That's what happens to you when you're a news person. Charlie wasn't a news person.

He was like a prophet in some ways who was speaking the good word while using those biblical principles to try to persuade people over to his political worldview. And it gave him like an optimism and a happiness and a joy and a benevolent kindness in dealing with these kids on college campuses that, frankly, the rest of us have probably lost a long time ago. At least I certainly have. And that leads me to my point in response to your second point.

I don't believe there's any reforming these people. I don't believe there's any reforming these people. I don't believe there's any shaming these people. I don't believe reaching out across the aisle will do anything to improve things with these people. I think these people need to be defeated and we need to move on from them. You know, I don't want anything bad to happen to them.

But the answer, as far as I can see, is to grow our own ranks. That's it. We have to drown out their voices. We have to answer their voices with our own. We have to grow more conservatives and independents who are sane and would never back political violence. There's so many people I detest on the left.

I mean, it's a long list, whose death I would never dream of celebrating. Never. There's only one right response when somebody gets assassinated or murdered, and it's, my God, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for their family and their friends.

What is the world coming to? And so there's no convincing them they've made an error or that we should all get along and they shouldn't celebrate our deaths. We just have to keep saying all the things that we've been saying and say it louder and more compellingly and do it from fortified spaces so that we cannot be hurt while doing it.

Yeah. You know, even as we were still poring over the horrific fallout from Charlie's murder, you saw the scenes outside the courtroom for Luigi Mangione, right, who for some bizarre reason, having walked up to a guy he didn't know, a health executive, and assassinated him in cold blood, for some reason he's become a hero to these people on the work cliff, to the extent that when the terrorism charges were dropped against him,

they were all out here doing this, celebrating, dancing in the streets. Like this was a joyous moment to be alive It's what powers their skin and sun care products now It's targeting age-related hair loss and thinning too. OneSkin's scalp serum, OS1 Hair, is getting rave reviews, as you can read for yourself,

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I'm sorry, but these people have Charlie Kirk's blood on their hands. They 100% have Charlie Kirk's blood on their hands, because this is what you get. When you celebrate political violence. You get more of it What do you think this shooter Charlie's shooter thought was gonna happen to him?

He thought that he would become a hero right amongst certain pockets on the left And he has he has just go on blue sky and that foments more political violence. I mean there There should be universal condemnation Universal condemnation now there the left is saying oh, let's cancel culture to fire people who are celebrating Charlie's death. That's ridiculous.

If you want to say you didn't believe Charlie was a good guy and you didn't believe in his messages, go for it. You shouldn't be fired from your job for that. But if you are celebrating the murder, the political assassination of anyone, you absolutely should be fired. Who in their right mind would continue employing you

or want you to be around their clients or customers

or fellow employees?

It's really interesting, Megan, you say that. I just had that very conversation with my team here, when we were prepping for today's show. And I said, I'd just done a podcast and I was like ruminating about how I'd responded to this. And I said, you know, to me, the line is very clear,

which is that free speech doesn't cover incitement to violence or acts of violence or anything to do with actual violence. And I'll come to what J.K. Rowling has said today about speech being violent, how absurd that is because of what it leads to. But I said, you know, when it comes to free speech,

though, it doesn't mean you're not accountable for things you then say, right?

That's right.

You could be protected from any legal ramifications against you by government. That's why Pam Bondi was so insane to say what she said.

Correct.

Because she didn't seem to understand the law or the First Amendment, a little worrying with an attorney general, even as she's now tried to backtrack. But the reality is if you're a doctor, a nurse, a professor at Harvard, if you're a teacher in a kindergarten school, whatever it may be, if you have a job like that and you are seen gleefully celebrating somebody's murder, then it is highly likely your employer will take a view that you are inappropriate for that position.

And I said to my team, you know, if one of you said this, honestly, if one of you revel publicly on social media in somebody's murder like this, I said, I wouldn't want you here. And we all kind of agreed,

nobody would want that person there. But that's not an infringement of your free speech rights in terms of a government coming after you or the law. It's just accountability for what you say with employers.

And frankly, let me put it one step further. As somebody who used to practice law for 10 years, if you had someone on your staff who openly celebrated a political assassination and made the point that murder can be good depending on its its aims and its intent And then and you continue to employing that person and then they hurt somebody else on your staff who may have said something politically that they Didn't like you'd be sued you there'd be a good case against you for allowing it for continuing to endanger

The employees who work for you. There's every incentive to get rid of somebody who doesn't show basic humanity. That doesn't seem to be too much to ask. And again, that is to be distinguished from people who just say, I didn't like him. I don't believe you're saying the right legacy about Charlie, I'll fight you on whether he was good or bad.

That's fine. That's quintessentially American. I think that's well within the bounds of appropriate speech, even in the wake of a tragic death like this. I don't like it. I don't think it's the right timing. I definitely did not think after Luigi Mangione killed Brian Thompson of United Healthcare, it was the time to debate whether our insurance companies are good or bad. Maybe we can have that discussion, but you don't have that in response to the political

violence or you encourage more of it. But the loss of humanity is A, both fireable, and b, deeply troubling. And it's growing. And there were two recent surveys of our country and where people stand on whether political violence is ever justified. And one showed that 55% of liberals said it is.

And one showed that 34% of liberals said it is. And both surveys showed very low single digits, like 7% of Republicans say sometimes it is. So this is a leftist problem. And the reason it remains a problem, I mean, there's many reasons why it's a problem,

but the reasons it remains a problem is the thing that you just showed, where the left, first of all, refused to accept, as we saw early on, first of all, it was Charlie Kirk who was shot. It was not some left-wing member of the squad, God forbid. I don't want anything to happen to them either. It was Charlie Kirk.

It was very clear, Occam's razor, the likelihood of why this guy was killed. And then it came out what was on the bullet casings, which were very clearly leftist messages, which they refused to accept on who follows Nick Fuentes. That was obviously not true, given what was written on these bullet casings. And the first, the bullet casing that shot Charlie, from the bullet that shot Charlie was,

notice his bulges, O-W-O, which is a furry meme. And the furry culture is very closely linked to the trans culture. And many of us went out there and called a spade a spade and said that's how this appears to be. The left melted down, can't be, can't possibly be. And then sure enough, what do we find out? That the shooter has a trans slash furry quote boyfriend who's the middle of transitioning from male to female,

which by the way is not a thing, cannot be done. And is writing him love notes about there's too much hate coming out of Charlie, and he's fallen into left-wing ideology. And now the left messaging, instead of saying, okay, you were right, sorry, we're going to really have to take a look at our own messaging around these issues, says, what does it matter, Juliette Kayyem, what does it really matter what the motivation was? Maybe he was just some nutcase. And that's my final point. He wasn't a nutcase. I am totally open-minded to it was a nutcase,

and you really can't ascribe too much to the particular motivations. I mean, at some level, everybody who takes another person's life in this fashion has to be a bit off, but this guy wasn't Pierce. He wasn't one of those guys,

like take the guy who killed the poor Irina on the light rail train in North Carolina. Clearly that man is mentally deranged and may have had other motivations that were connected to his mental derangement, but this is not a sane person, it's very clear. The issue in that case is judges who wouldn't lock him up, knowing that he was insane,

just turned him back out on the rest of us because they knew he was violent, a criminal, and insane. The issue here is there's no hint of insanity. This guy seems to have been very much together. This was truly a political assassination. And I heard Charles C.W.

Cook of National Review say it beautifully, which was, you look back at why Reagan was killed by John Hinckley, not killed, shot by John Hinckley. He was a nutcase. He went to the mental asylum. He was doing it to impress Jodie Foster. That's not somebody who's moved by political rhetoric against Reagan.

But look at who killed Martin Luther King. That was political violence. He was against the civil rights movement. He was a racist. Yes, the motivation does matter. The left would never dispute that if you held those two cases up.

And this case seems pretty clear we're dealing with a sane young man who was politically motivated to take down Charlie Kirk. How did he get there? What were the influences? Totally fair questions that need to be honestly answered.

100%. Just a final point before I let you go, Meg. I know you've got a busy day. The language that people have used on the left for so long about Trump and Trump supporters, Hitler, Nazis, fascists, when you see the anti-fascist insignia on the bullets, it was one of the bullets, I've felt for a long time

that if you keep using those analogies, those grotesque analogies about Trump and his supporters, then eventually people on the left who are slightly unhinged, who've been radicalised, they're going to think logically in their twisted way. They're going to think, well, if this is actually the new Hitler,

if these really are the new Nazis, they represent an existential threat to America, I need to kill them. It's a logical way to look at it if you genuinely believe they are Hitler and the Nazis or the new fascists. And that's been my issue with that language for so long.

And it's got to stop, hasn't it? Because I can see how a twisted mind hears that all the time and believes it.

Yes, and yet there will be no stopping them. If they didn't learn that lesson after Butler, they're not going to learn that lesson. They really believe it. First of all, some collection of them really believes that Trump and his supporters are fascists and all white supremacists and Nazis, so they're not going to back off of it. They're committed to that rhetoric because they think it's truthful.

And secondly, there is a part of them that is enjoying the political violence. Back to the polls I just referenced, there is an unhealthy faction on the left that would like to see more people on the right get killed, actually get killed.

And honestly, you look at the difference between, right now, the left is bringing up the murder of this House speaker in the state of Minnesota a few months ago. This terrible murder by a nutcase. This guy was nuts. Okay, it's back to the crazy people who are out there everywhere in the world.

The difference between that murder and Charlie Kirk's murder is there wasn't a single solitary right winger who celebrated that woman's death. And there wasn't a single solitary right winger who demonized her as fascist or Nazi or what, pick your term, prior to her death. She was the victim of a crazed madman who, if anything, said he was motivated by the Democratic governor, Tim Walz, and him telling him to get demons.

But the point is, the reactions, both before and after the assassination, were markedly different. Just like on the hate speech comment by Pam Bondi. Pam Bondi got shamed out of her position yesterday by the right, because most of us on the right are consistent with our positioning. And when we heard her say such an asinine, inane thing, we clobbered one of our own.

The left wing doesn't do that. And while I've received lots of nice messages from some more reasonable leftists in response to Charlie's assassination, and I do appreciate it, it's not enough to feel it privately.

You have to police your own side. You have power over your lefties in a way I don't. So I can't fix it even if I want to. And I don't actually believe it's, I think it's fool's gold to even try, but I'd love to see them give it an effort on the left.

Megan, it's great to have you. You're going out on tour for the first time with your brilliant show. I was booked to appear with you in Miami. Some people have said to me, because of all this, will I still be appearing with you in Miami? And the answer is yes because frankly to all those who want to intimidate people like

us from not being able to express our honestly held opinions, fuck them. So I

will see you in Miami. Piers, you gave me the chills. I love you for saying that and for doing that and yeah come hell or water, I will see you in Miami. I look forward to it.

Take care, Megan.

You too.

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when you buy before the end of September. Text my name, PEERS, to 989-898. Claim your eligibility and get your free information pack. Again, just text peers to 989-898. Well, joining me on the panel to discuss all this is Riley Gaines, the host of Gaines for Girls

on Outkick.com, Jillian Michaels, host of Keeping It Real, Brian Shapiro, host of Pushing My Limits, and Lucas Bain, better known as the amazing Lucas. Okay, well, welcome to all of you. Brian Shapiro, I have been, I was sickened by what happened to Charlie Kirk.

Let's just, I think we can probably all agree, I hope we can all agree, it was sickening, although I had Destiny on the other night who couldn't bring himself to condemn it because Donald Trump hadn't said the right thing for him, which I think is a lamentable piece of moral cowardice. So let me just start by asking you, I presume you condemn and were horrified by what happened to

Charlie Kirk? Absolutely, I was on the air, Pierce, when it all happened. I got emotional. The first thing I thought about were his kids and his family. This is not only bad for Charlie Kirk, obviously, and bad for his family, it's bad for America. And I also feel for everybody that was traumatized, that was there that day, that had to see that. Now, with that being said, of course, I didn't agree with basically anything that Charlie Kirk stands for. But with that being said, anybody that's celebrating his death, I think that's despicable and it's disgusting. And I've called that out. And I've been very consistent on my opinions since

day one, if there's one thing that me and Charlie Kirk certainly agreed on, it's civil discourse and having political debate. I enjoy doing this show, Pierce, and I enjoy having respectful discussions with people that I disagree with. So this is a horrible, horrible situation, we could never condone political violence, no matter what side of the aisle

it comes from. Why have so many people on the far left, the woke left, been so brazen in their gleeful celebration of what happened to Charlie Kirk?

Well, my response to that, number one, is I'm not on the far left, so I certainly don't speak for them, but there's people on both sides of the aisle. I know Republicans don't want to hear that, but there are crazy lunatics on both sides of the aisle that celebrate really horrible things that happened to people in America. I don't agree with them. And if you're

on the far left or the far right and you celebrate anybody getting murdered, then there's something wrong with you. And I don't feel bad for any of those people that were fired for celebrating his death. I think it's disgusting. Now, if you're just talking about him and saying, well, he wasn't a good guy, here's why I didn't like him, here are some of his quotes that he said in the past, I don't think you should be fired for that. I think there's a way to call out political violence and say Charlie Kirk didn't deserve this Kirk and I didn't like what he stood for. I think you could make both points respectfully.

OK, Lucas Bean, I've been pointed out to me that you've posted some messages about Charlie Kirk on your Instagram, which we're going to show here. One is a post as a parody of a Jubilee debate. I'm doing one of these myself soon, titled Charlie Kirk versus Bullet. Can one bullet to the neck outsmart one conservative? Well, that was a short watch. Number two is a mocked-up promotion poster called Kirk and Twerk

at Neck of the Woods and hashtagged both Charlie Kirk and his widow. And the third was an image of a surprise, a sunrise titled God Works in Mysterious Ways with the hashtag Charlie Kirk killing and praying hands as an emoji and you're laughing as I show these. Why do you find this funny?

Well let me just say that I actually am a big advocate for dark humor and I happen to have gotten a bit of a taste of that over the last, I don't know, maybe decade or so when it came to the right and their memes of George Floyd, you know, happy birthday being sober for five years, when it came to their memes of Breonna Taylor, when it came to their memes of Trayvon Martin, the Trayvon challenge, right, when it came to their memes of Tamir Rice.

So I don't know what the issue is. I think I'm engaging in the freedom of speech that the right has been advocating for for these last 10 years and mocking and making light of a black death, something that Charlie Kirk himself did time and time again. As a matter of fact, I would argue that if Charlie Kirk,

instead of focusing his time on black culture and black on black crime, if he had spent a modicum focusing his time on black culture and black on black crime, if he had spent a modicum of his time focusing on the white youth, that perhaps he would still be with us today.

Are you pleased he's dead?

No, absolutely not.

So how did you feel about his murder?

But I don't think the white can say this. How do I feel about his murder?

Yeah.

Well, I think a quote by a great author sums up the sentiment of millions of Americans around the world, and that is some cause happiness wherever they go, others when they go. And I think that's a sentiment that is palatable amongst many Americans around the world due to the hate and vitriol and bile that Charlie Kirk sowed. So I think there was a passage...

So just to be clear, unless I misheard you, then you are happy he died?

No, I don't think as far as happiness is an emotion that...

You literally just read me a quote which implies you're happy. You talked about some people's death bring happiness.

The purpose of the quote was to say that there are some people who have caused harm and death and turmoil to other groups of people such as Charlie Kirk, whether it's black people, whether it's trans people.

I heard the quote, but just to be clear, you said that the quote ends in that their death brings happiness, but you've denied that you were happy. But when you tell me a quote like that, I presume from that quote, you're implying that actually you are happy he died because he deserved it, he had it coming.

No, not at all. I don't think those are ever words that I've ever mentioned verbatim ever. I think there is a sentiment that when someone who lives their life in evil and wickedness, according to the scripture, the power of life

and death is in your tongue. And the hate and the vile and the venom that he spewed, I don't know what to tell you. As the scripture says, as he professed, you live by the sword, you die by the sword. I think his focus should have been on a community that clearly is in problem. I find it interesting that there's more scrutiny on people who make memes,

memes that they've done of George Floyd and other black victims, than on the white male youth that did this tragedy, as some would call it.

I think that should be the focus. Why would you be offended about the memes to people like George Floyd, which I found contemptible at the time, if they're the same ones that you're talking about. Why would you profess to be offended by those if you're quite happy to do the

same kind of thing yourself?

I think the point that I'm making by the means that I'm putting out, which clearly has caused outrage and triggering, I find it a bit hypocritical that the people for years who said fuck your feelings are now overwhelmed with feelings at the moment. But the point that I was making was to point out the hypocrisy that the right has on a variety and myriad of issues, as we just saw with Pam Bondi on the freedom of speech. I think the issue is that they have scapegoated people like Pam Bondi for what is the crime

of Donald Trump, the same thing they did with Anthony Fauci. We saw this when it came to the second amendment. They banned bump stock ban, they had a bump stock ban under Donald Trump while they were fear mongering about Biden take away your guns.

But as we saw, there was no outrage, there was no protest and we come to find out that it was unconstitutional. So I think this hypocrisy is ubiquitous within the right

and I think my memes expose that hypocrisy. And what about your own personal humanity? I mean, hashtagging, hashtagging his widow in a mocked up promotion poster of Kirk and Twerk at Neck of the Woods. How do you justify targeting? Oh, hang on. How do you justify targeting his widow?

I think that's a bit disingenuous to use such hyperbolic language as targeting. I think it's a bit disingenuous to use such a hyperbolic language as targeting. I think it's more of a strategic plan of attack to get the message out to more people. When we saw Erica Kirk, she had a moment to speak for unity within the country, left and right, and she chose to fundraise. She then chose to use the scripture and talk very nicely of her past husband.

And I understand that. But by that same token, there are people who were absolutely harmed by the rhetoric that Charlie Kirk put out. And that rhetoric actually codified in many cases in many states.

So I think it's abhorrent and actually perverse to expect people who are harmed by his rhetoric, by harmed by someone who had anti-black, anti, you know, anti anyone who wasn't white and Christian in his perspective. I think it's perverse to try and criticize those people or try and make them seem as if they're the bad guys when that's really not the case.

Yeah, but you see, funny enough, I can look at what you've done and I can see somebody who is abhorrent and despicable and actually evil, actually. The stuff when you target someone's widow as she grieves and tries to protect her two children.

Once again, I disagree with the word targeting.

No, no, I'm talking about me personally, my view of what you've done. I don't care about your motivation in terms of other people's inappropriate memes, many of which I may well agree with you about, but that doesn't mean that I then go and do it myself or worse, because that makes me even more inhuman

and abhorrent, and by your definition, evil.

I disagree. I think there's a point in time, when it comes to Republicans,

when it comes to conservatives, I know you disagree. I'm just telling you. I'm just telling you. I know. I'm just telling you.

I know.

Hang on.

I've let you have your say.

I've let you have your say.

I've let you have your say.

I'm telling you. Fine.

I'm using your own justification to tell you what I think of you and what you've done. Right? That's my free speech at work. Let me bring in Gillian Michaels. I mean, Gillian, look, you know, I saw Brian there nodding to some of what he was hearing. They're not all, to be clear, but nodding to some of it about the hypocrisy which Lucas claims he is exposing with this stuff.

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I find this exceptionally sad because Lucas you talk about how hurt you were and how offended you were by such despicable things and then you became the thing that you found the most repulsive which is alarming and as I mentioned deeply saddening. I would be more than happy to litigate some of Charlie's positions for you. I objectly.

I don't think I need any litigation from a woman who tried to downplay slavery, who tried to all lives matter slavery after she purchased a black child. That's what I would argue. I don't think you need to as far as litigate anything. Would you like to discuss it?

Okay. Because the reality of the situation is that what I gave you, whether you like it or not,

is a fact from the 1860 census.

And the point is not to downplay slavery. It literally is not a fact.

It is actually a bastardization of actual history.

Your wall.

What you cited Was inaccurate. You can actually look it up. I don't know if you did before. I actually did look it up. I doubt you do your due diligence. You clearly did not because in that study that you're citing- Would you like to discuss it? In the study that, I'm discussing it right now.

In the study that you're citing, it takes into account not only the slaves, it takes into account the northern states and the southern states. which is abhorrent and in extreme contradiction to American history, especially in this country as chattel slavery is black Americans, is abhorrent and perverse, especially you, who is the mother of a black child, who she purchased.

Right. Is it my turn to talk?

You purchased, by all means.

How did I? Okay, well, I'm not quite sure what you mean by purchase.

She's adopted and it is illegal to purchase a child.

Did you pay to get that child?

No, I paid the adoption agency to do my home study. It was absolutely free.

It was absolutely, okay, so then there was a process of payment. I paid the adoption agency, like you pay to adopt a child. So then there was a process of payment. I believe that other people adopt. You purchased. Adoption agency. Okay, you're you're wrong and that's defamation. I'm literally

right. You're literally wrong and it's this I'm literally correct. You know what

you are, you know what you are Lucas. Let me just, let me jump in here. Let me jump in here Lucas. That seems to me, seems to me Lucas you've decided to be just as offensive as you want to be. You're now attacking people who adopt children, which is one of the most selfless things that any human being could do, actually.

This is literally what the right did to Dave Rubin.

Is it not? Fine, fine. trying to be as offensive as possible whilst masquerading under this umbrella of everybody else is offensive so that's why I'm doing it to expose all the hypocrisy. But Jillian is right, Jillian is right, that actually you have descended, the way you've just gone after Jillian, you know what Lucas, stop talking, stop talking, stop talking, you have targeted Jillian for adopting a child. That is despicable.

Let me bring in Riley Gaines.

I have targeted Jillian for adopting a black child after she downplayed slavery, which I think it's contradictory. You attacked her for adopting a child. Let's not misconstrue my words that I'm saying.

Oh, I heard your words. Let me bring in Riley. Let me bring in Riley. You're misinterpreting it. Let me bring in Riley Gaines here. Sure, buddy. Riley, you've been waiting patiently.

Great rebuttal, Gillian.

OK, can you please let the other speak, please?

I wasn't actually allowed to talk, Lucas, but I'm more than happy actually to have you

on my podcast. That's because anything that comes out of your mouth is Batman. We can discuss all of it. If you'd like to come on my podcast, I would be more than happy to do a podcast. Okay, that's a different podcast for a different time. I'm more than willing to have discourse to honor Charlie Kirk.

If you're willing for discourse, let Riley Gaines speak. Riley, what is your view of what you've been hearing?

I mean, honestly, it makes me feel tearful. I have experienced all of the emotions over the past week. It has been, to the day 7 days. I think initially starting with total shock and disbelief and honestly confusion I've been so blessed in my life to not have been surrounded by death much in my family haven't lost really anyone close to me Charlie was

a friend, a mentor of mine, he's who who ultimately I attribute to giving me my voice the platform that I have I attribute that to turning point USA to Charlie Kirk. So to lose a friend like that, like I have gone through all the emotions, but to sit here today and listen to the discussions

that we have seen, I think particularly from Lucas, whether it was about the memes that were posted, whether it was about Jillian adopting a black child. I mean, I am just like in total disbelief, disarray. How have we reached a point where these are the discussions that we're having

and on a national stage here, like we have democratic elected officials who are celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk,

the best and most effective debater of our time.

All they do is lie. Activists really, I think debater is really time. All they do is lie.

Activists, really. I think debater is really downplaying ultimately.

That's not true, Pierce, she's lying.

In what way?

What is the lie?

Name me one prominent, name me, hey, Riley, name me one prominent Democrat that has celebrated the death. And I find it very interesting. You've made a living attacking transgenders. You've made millions of dollars across the country doing that. I didn't ask for this.

If you truly care about. If you've, I didn't listen. I didn't ask for the position that I'm in. I'm sorry you lost a friend. OK, hold on a second. Yes, you, in this case you have.

You've made millions of dollars profiting going across the country. You've made a lot swimmer unless you're attacking transgenders. Now, if you care about children, then why have you not criticized Donald Trump? If you care about children and women, then why have you not gone after Donald Trump

for not bringing out the Epstein files? If you care about children, why don't you talk about gun control? I'm happy that that transgender is out of that volleyball tournament, okay? But there's more important things that we should be talking about.

And you've profited off of attacking transgenders with your hatred towards transgender people. Nobody knows who you are as a college swimmer. People know who you are because you go around the country attacking transgenders, Riley. That's who you are.

Actually, what she's done, actually what she's done, Brian, very heroically, in my opinion, is she's gone around the country defending women's rights to fairness, equality and safety. Something that I'm very surprised to hear that you on the left do not wholeheartedly endorse and agree with.

Pierce, let me respond to what you just said. If in fact Riley Gaines, by the way, Pierce, I've had this conversation on your show about transgenders. I don't think transgender women should be competing with women on the plane. So you agree with that? However, I do, but here's my problem with Riley. So what are you talking about? She doesn't talk about the, let me explain. She doesn't talk about the non-release of the Epstein files and real victims of sexual abuse. She doesn't criticize Donald Trump.

She doesn't talk about how flags weren't at half-mast after children are massacred

in schools.

She only talks about transgenders.

Let me ask you, do you talk about- It's so funny because-

Hang on, hang on, hang on.

I'm talking- You followed everything that I've ever said on any topic ever.

Hang on Riley, so Brian your position is that unless you talk out publicly about every single issue that is important in the world then it disqualifies you from talking about the issue that you not only care about most because it happened to you but you are passionate about because it protects women's rights. Is that your

position? Pierce, Pierce, here's my position. You don't have to talk about every single issue. But when the second leading cause of death in children is gun violence, you probably should bring that up. When we talk about MAGA Republicans who have talked about the Epstein files and horrible

abuse, Maxwell was one of the largest sex traffickers in the world. And the Donald Trump administration have sent her to a quiet

Is Riley games have to do all that? Why does Riley get she says she cares? No, Riley gains cares about let me answer. I think Riley gains cares because a because a very very tall muscular powerful male Called Leah Thomas said suddenly I who was a very moderate unsuccessful male swimmer suddenly said I'm a woman and then began destroying women in the

women's pool it was clearly grotesquely unfair unequal I actually dangerous and we saw the same thing happen in a boxing ring in Paris and the Olympics. I would like to be able to speak for myself. For Riley to be condemned by you.

That'd be super cool.

For Riley to be condemned by you because she doesn't also talk about other issues is absurd.

Anyway. Well, first of all, that's not even true.

No, it's not a bit critical.

We'll come back to this. I'm just going to hold the panel here for a moment. brief time out. I've been joined by Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace. Nancy, welcome back to Uncensored. We're here, we're just having a kind of slightly insane debate in my opinion. But, but there's a lot of insanity flying around at the moment. One of which is the utterly appalling spectacle of so many on the left, openly, brazenly, proudly celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk. How have we got here as a society?

Well, it's insane.

And you can just see in the previous debate, you saw two grown men, Democrat men, screaming, yelling on your program at two women. Briley Gaines is one of the brightest, smartest, youngest minds fighting for what she believes in and we want to encourage that, not discourage it.

I don't want to discourage anyone out there to prevent them from speaking up by getting yelled at. I was yelled out yesterday in front of Don Lemon at the steps of the Capitol. All we want to do, I'm a rape survivor. All I want as a rape victim is to ensure that men aren't in my bathroom or Riley's bathroom

or in the shower next to us. That is dangerous and it's uncalled for. But to see those men on your program yelling at the women who are just talking freely, talking in a sane and normal manner, trying to have a colloquy,

trying to have a national conversation, and they're being screamed at. That's how we got here. And until the left, and until the Democrat party acknowledges their role in this,

it's not going to get better. And I have to tell you, it's terrifying right now to be a conservative. I am carrying my six hour P365 everywhere I go. I have armed guards everywhere I go. I can't even go to the grocery store alone anymore.

I can't even walk my dog without a gun because I have many, so many on the left, Democrats, a lot of transgenders who are emailing, calling, trying to show up at my office, threatening to kill me, my children, my family, my elderly parents, the father of my children. And I'm not gonna live in fear.

I'm not gonna be terrified. And I'm going to figuratively fight back, figuratively push back and protect my safety. Today, I'm gonna lead a floor debate against Ilhan Omar. Lucas was asking about a prominent Democrat celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk.

They're everywhere.

But let's start with Ilhan Omar, who's right down the hall from me right now, I'm in Congress at the Capitol, who celebrated the murder and political assassination of Charlie Kirk by saying that people who were mourning his death were full of shit,

excuse my language, but no, and is posting content celebrating his murder, calling Charlie Kirk a terrorist. I can't even with these people because they just won't tell the truth. And like, I love having a debate.

I love coming on and having a conversation even when we disagree, Pierce, but there's never anything ill or negative or like, I don't want to bring harm on anybody, but we have to tell the truth. And how do you unite with people who refuse to tell the truth, who continue to lie? I just, I don't know how you continue to have a conversation with these people. We have to shun them.

Do you have to be careful? I watched Pam Bondi trying to explain that hate speech is something that the Attorney General believed should be pursued with the full force of the law. And I recoiled from that, as did many on the right, because actually the First Amendment protects hate speech. It doesn't protect incitement to violence or acts of violence, but you can say hateful

things and be protected under the first amendment and it was pretty staggering to hear an attorney general who didn't seem to realize that. Some have criticized you because you have a hotline, you've encouraged people to call in and you know if people are saying bad things about Charlie Kirk and so on, you know there will be people on the left going well this, this is just complete hypocrisy, because really what you're operating with this is a form of the very cancel culture that you and others on the right have

always professed to hate. What do you say to that?

Well, this is a cancel culture. And I have voted and I've supported legislation that protects the freedom of speech, that protects the First Amendment. You know, I've been out there on the Epstein files to protecting survivors, by the way, there are Republicans out there who are very vocal, like myself. But free speech has consequences. And I'll quote Ilhan Omar, who tweeted that you have the right to say anything you want, you have the right to

those opinions. But there are consequences. And if you are around children, my particular focus is on the educational system, those that are teaching our kids or in the classroom, and those who are making health care decisions for people. I don't want the bias and those who are celebrating the murder of a political class, a political side that they don't agree with, they should not be making medical decisions for others, and they should not be indoctrinating our kids. We look at Tyler Robinson, 22-year-old kid

who has self-admittedly murdered Charlie Kirk because he didn't like his opinions and thought he was full of hate. They're condoning this. They're endorsing this. He was radicalized, we believe, at school and in the education system.

We can't allow that. I mean, when I was growing up, teachers were just normal. You had no idea what their politics were. And now kids are forced to say, what are your pronouns and can you define 100 genders? And, you know, I just... They're being influenced and inspired and radicalized,

and this can't be happening. This is how we got here. And we have to admit that this is the truth and that we're going to work together to end it and they don't want to. They don't want to and I just, I don't know what else to do. I want to defund the schools that allow teachers that celebrate murder to stay there

and stay employed. I want to defund them and I want to shame these teachers out of existence. I don't want them anywhere near my kids, no, or yours.

Nancy Mace, thank you very much indeed for joining me.

Thank you.

Let's go back to the panel. I mean, Brian Shapiro, did any of that give you pause for thought?

Well, first of all, I find it ironic that Nancy Mace is talking about telling the truth, yet she's the person who blamed the shooter in the Charlie Kirk murder as a transgender. I find that very ironic. She also called me a Democrat. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a registered independent that is anti-Donald Trump.

So I want to be very clear on that as well. Listen, all the... Now she mentioned Ilhan Omar. If that's true about Ilhan Omar and she made those statements, I totally disavow that. But I don't think anybody could name me three Democrats that are celebrating Charlie Kirk's death that are elected officials. Number two, every Democrat out there is saying this is wrong for the most part political violence we should never celebrate it and all the right is doing is blaming it on the radical left including Donald Trump. Nancy Mace wants to say to bring

people together Donald Trump has divided us by blaming the radical left for what took place here. You would be blaming. Brian, be honest if it was the other way

around and the investigators said publicly as they have as has the governor of Utah that all the evidence pointed to this person being radicalized by the far-right you would not hesitate to say this was a far right assassination and you would go on a

massive rant about it. So there's a double standard there. You're wrong. You're wrong. I don't do that, Pierce. You could look at my social media. No, you're wrong. Here's what I do.

I call out political violence on both sides. If you recall, Pierce, the right...

That wasn't my point. I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying if he was a radical right, if he'd been radicalized by the right, I don't think you would be saying people shouldn't be

talking about the radicalization. The reason why, Pierce, I ever bring up the

radical right is because the right never takes responsibility, literally, for

anything. Nor is the left. The left, having said this for years, now is doing exactly the same thing. I saw Jimmy Kimmel literally go on a rant saying this guy was a MAGA guy, a complete

lie.

Pierce, I'm going to be, I'm always consistent on this issue. It doesn't matter whether it comes from the right or the left. It's wrong. We need to call out political violence on both sides of the aisle. And I think that's what most Democrats and all agree.

But Brian, you're missing my point. We should also be unafraid to call out radicalization where we see it as a primary motivation for these assassinations.

So do you think this shooter was a radical leftist?

I think this person was, as the investigators are saying, I'll come to you in a moment Lucas, as the investigators are saying and as the governor is saying, the governor has hit a very, in my view, sensible tone throughout all this, as they've all been saying, all the evidence is pointing to a young man who was radicalized to the left.

Okay, so let me respond to that real quickly. So first of all, even if that is true, I totally disagree with what Megyn Kelly said. If you're somebody who wants to kill somebody because you disagree with their, your beliefs, their beliefs, then there's something wrong with you. You are crazy. So Pierce, even if that was true, now we know he comes from a conservative Mormon family. I don't really care what his political affiliation is. I'm grateful that his father and a transgender, by the way,

who so many two people on this panel continue to attack, there's a transgender that we should be thanking.

The two people on this panel haven't even got a chance

to say a word yet.

Because two of our men,

let us just let them talk.

All right, let me bring in the two women here.

Let me bring in Jillian.

Who they are. We actually don't need to say who they are. Hang on, can we talk at once, please? Can the two men shut up for a moment?

Jillian.

There are so many lies here. I don't know which to tackle first. The reality is that we are here because of the very things you guys are doing in this moment. You refuse to engage in any sort of intelligent dialogue or debate. You just name-call. We're bigots. We're racists. This is exactly how we got here,

this kind of othering, this kind of demonization. If you guys want to have an intelligent conversation about something that I have said, something that Riley has said, or something that Charlie has said, I'm absolutely here for it.

But in this moment, you are very clearly showing the world that you are an integral part of this problem and it's irrelevant what side of the aisle you're on it's a human characteristic of demonizing others and you both have it.

All right Riley.

Can I just yeah, I was just like the opportunity to defend myself for a second because Brian what you said is like the most ill-informed thing I've ever heard number one to insinuate that I'm not a good athlete as if that even matters OK, I'm one of the fastest American ever so that can you name me 3 female swimmers.

The reason why I said nobody would you are because you are

numbers if you're going to talk about how no one knew no you name me 3 of the top female summers.

And this nation 9% of the country 99% of the country can't name 3 female swimmers the only nation or this world? 99% of the country can't name three female swimmers. The only reason why we know who you are is because you're a half transgender 24-7.

Did my athletic ability, which again, one of the fastest in the nation and the world really for that matter when I was competing, why did that have anything to do with anything? Are you saying only the best female athletes, only the best of the best, only those who are winning Olympic gold medals deserve fairness? Is that what you're saying?

Make it clear to me, please.

No, what I'm saying is- Okay, perfect.

Okay, so I'm gonna continue on now. To say that I have not been a voice for the Epstein victims is ridiculous. So you don't want me release the Epstein false? We are going to act like the proven harm and abuse of because he's in him cause never happened his victims deserve so much better than That there is no line to walk when it comes to sex trafficking, especially of children So to say that I have not been a voice Riley Epstein victims is ridiculous Okay, I've been a voice for Muslim questions in Afghanistan and Yemen

and South Sudan who are under Sharia law, who don't get to get an education, who don't get to go to the gym, who don't get to to go to the doctor. Like I have been a voice for all these women.

So to sit here and act like you understand number one is ridiculous and entirely different.

Riley, can I respond? Okay, Riley. Now that I'm done. Absolutely. Understood. Let me ask. Okay, so Riley, when Donald Trump bragged about going into teenage girls' locker rooms on the Howard Stern Show, are you willing to condemn Donald Trump right now on the program? Or the fact that he's a liable sexual abuser and a 34-count felon?

He bragged about going into teenage girls locker rooms. If you care, which I believe you do, by the way, Riley, if you care about young women, are you willing to condemn Donald Trump for going into teenage girls locker rooms

without their permission?

I think any man who violates a woman's privacy, safety, fairness when it comes to athletic competitions is detestable and condemnable.

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Hey, Pierce, Pierce, Pierce, this is why I bring this up. I'm so glad she said that. She went back to transgenders and she didn't answer my question. So I will try to ask it again.

I said nothing about transgenders.

It's telling that you insinuate.

You just said fairness in sports.

That's what I'm talking about.

Women's spaces. She won't answer the question. I addressed the galvanizing that was made by Jillian. Any man.

Pierce, can I just finish this?

Any man's spaces.

She won't condemn Donald Trump for anything.

You sound like a little child who's throwing a hissy fit.

I think that would include, to be fair, I think that includes Donald Trump.

She won't answer the question.

All right, let me bring in Lucas.

She won't answer the question. Let Lucas respond. To be fair, I believe that she, to be fair, she didn't name him by name, but I think that would include Donald Trump. But to bring up as far as the galvanizing, which is I think what we're witnessing is is gaslighting and political schizophrenia at its peak. Because when we talk about galvanize, we have to look at the body of work that Charlie Kirk did, whether it was to once again de, dehumanize Black people, to say that Black women were low IQ and non-deserving

and non-deserving of their positions, right, whether it was to bastardize, as far as a Black American lexicon, whether it was the perversion of woke or whether it was the perversion of Black fatigue, something that was crucial to Black history, even to this day, whether it was the perversion of CRT,

I think it's absolutely diabolical to say that this is coming from the left when Charlie Kirk spent most of his life to do that. I think when he talks about black death, when it's Trayvon Martin, Breonna Taylor, all these people that he vilified,

all these people that he could care less about. But you wanna know something? There is not one mention of Daniel Schaefer. I mentioned Daniel Schaefer, white man killed, police brutality. It's not one mention of Jared Lackey on any of his posts. I mentioned Jared Lackey, white man, tased to death, police brutality. There is not one mention of Kelly Thomas. There is not one mention of Ryan Whitaker,

killed, shot in the back, white man, because he was playing video games too loud. So to say that they care about, oh, police brutality, they care that it's not galvanizing, they are galvanizing, Charlie Kirk and other people like him are galvanizing their audience to, ironically,

to promote a white victimhood complex on a certain group of white individuals who feel disassociated with society currently.

All right, Brian, hold fire.

Same thing that they argued that was happening to black people.

They are now prophetizing.

I just want to ask Jillian. You made your point. I just want to ask Jillian a question. I'm going to come back to you in one moment. We're going to bring in another guest now, Jeffree Star, who's a cosmetics influencer. Thank you very much indeed for joining me, Geoffrey. You've gone viral... Hi, Piers. You've gone viral this week for this TikTok Live.

He encouraged everyone to speak about their beliefs, whether he believed them or not. Am I a Republican? No, I'm a person. Because I'm standing up for someone that passed away, I'm now being called names in the chat. This is what's wrong with a lot of you people.

You will never get far in life. You are sick in the head. Someone just said they're unsubscribing from me. Thank God, please. Because if you believe in vain thems, you're part of the problem. If you're so stupid enough to go against science, please unfollow me.

Jeffrey, what happened to you as a consequence of that going viral?

So about 100,000 people have unfollowed me this week for speaking about Charlie, the entire thing. I can't believe so many people in America are cheering and praising his death. It's honestly disgusting. So while I was live-streaming, I found out about what happened in real time and it was so horrifying and devastating. I followed him for a few years. Do I agree with everything he's ever said? Of course I don't, but I loved a lot of what he said

and it resonates with me. But the good news is, is hundreds of thousands of more people have followed me and they're on the exact same page. So I don't care about the following, it's not about that. I just had to speak my mind.

Have you been surprised, shocked, depressed by the reaction? I mean, I've been genuinely stunned. I thought I'd seen everything in the news game going back 40 years. But to see the outpouring of gleeful celebration of a young man's murder for expressing his opinions and a young man who would deliberately go into the opposition territory, college campuses,

and get people to line up and say, come on, come and argue with me in a respectful way. The idea that he gets murdered for doing that all the time seemed particularly perverse to me. Were you, how did you feel about it?

I was honestly horrified because I'm someone that's always been outspoken. I love the truth. And for some reason, people are afraid of the truth. I've been told all week, he would have hated someone like you.

No, he would have respected me because I'm my own person and I know how to have my own thoughts. So when I found out, when I saw it in real time, I was completely devastated. I can't believe someone that has an opinion is now dead. It's disgusting.

Yeah, Brian, I mean, when you hear that, do you find it disgusting, the reaction that Jeffrey's had?

Yeah, absolutely. 150%. I think anybody who celebrates Charlie Kirk's death is absolutely disgusting. And I applaud you for, you know, doing the right thing and being a good human being and saying this is horrible.

Charlie Kirk didn't deserve this. I feel for his kids and his family. Doesn't mean we have to agree with everything Charlie Kirk stood for, which obviously I don't. But for the people that are attacking you on social media, I mean, I've gotten death threats as well.

It's despicable and I feel for you. We should be able to have a respectful dialogue about Charlie Kirk. And I would certainly welcome that with Jillian. And I have some questions for her if we have the time.

Well, ask her now.

Well, Jillian, hi, Jillian. I agree with you. I think respectful conversation and political discourse is good. It's one thing I have in common with Charlie Kirk. Here's what I would say, ask you about. The day Paul Pelosi was bludgeoned with a hammer, the day after that, Charlie Kirk went on his podcast, he made jokes about it, and on his show he asked his listeners to donate

to the person who tried to kill Paul Pelosi. Are you willing to admit that that's also wrong because Charlie Kirk did that on his

show? 100%. If Charlie, okay, if Charlie did that, I 100% agree with you. I haven't seen that. A lot of the stuff that I have seen and experienced with Charlie,

he advocates consistently against violence. So if he did that, I am in 100% agreement with you. And in fact, came prepared today to talk about this kind of violence and othering on both sides and I could talk about in I believe it was 2016 when Donald Trump talked about people who believe in the second amendment going out and taking care of some of

these politicians who didn't agree with him because I think the othering and the demonization and the labeling is devastating our culture and it is literally getting people so if Charlie did that, then I agree with you on that. I'm unfamiliar with it. I'd have to watch it myself.

Right. So, Jillian, I appreciate you giving me that answer, but he also said that Michelle Obama and Joy Reid don't have the processing brainpower to be taken seriously. He called gay people destructive. He said Taylor Swift should submit to her husband. He also said that he blamed Jewish money for ruining America. I don't again,

let me preface this by saying I watched a lot of guys in those. I watched a lot of that

stuff and that's mischaracterized. And when he was talking about no it's not I or Joe it actually is and I'm more than happy to send you know numerous videos where Charlie talks about the conservative movement and how there is absolutely room for people who are gay and goes on to admonish somebody who says that there are not he talks about Dave Rubin you he talks about Peter Thiel. Jillian.

Okay. This is the same freedom that I'm talking about.

Jillian, bring him the shaves out of his mouth. I have to be able to.

Jillian, Jillian, Jillian, just let me respond.

You don't want the truth.

Ten seconds. Jillian. No, Jillian, I just want ten seconds respectfully. Thank you. that Charlie Kirk has said a lot of nice things about a lot of people. But I'm sure he said a lot of nice things about people, but that doesn't take away the bad things that he said also. I played those videos on my show yesterday. I didn't take them out of context.

Did you play them in context?

I didn't take them out of context. So explain to me, when Charlie Kirk says that blacks were better off in the 1940s and that the Civil Rights Act should not have been passed.

I can explain that in detail. I can explain that in detail. There's an hour and 22 minute long podcast where he dives into it. And what he goes on to talk about is that the intentions of the Civil Rights Act

were fantastic, the desire for equal opportunity, but that because it was so broad and so vague, it made room for things like demanding equal outcomes. He cites a case where teachers in New York have to take a basic standardized test, okay? And this started in the 1980s and the 1990s. Unfortunately, black and Hispanic teachers didn't pass at the same rate that whites and

Asians did. Now, instead of looking at why is this happening, where is the disparity, how can we fix this, what's broken with the system, years later, New York as a state was sued because these teachers failed at disproportionate rates and had to pay a billion dollars. He's turning around saying this is crazy. This is insane. I happen to agree.

That's crazy. And it doesn't fix what's actually broken. He talks about how this is the point.

You see, he says a broad spectrum of people.

He outright says that he won. First of all, Charlie doesn't even believe in race. He goes on to talk about how it's a social construct. He goes on to praise Martin Luther King's position that we shouldn't judge men on the color of their skin,

but on the quality of their character.

You mean the same Martin Luther King who he vilified?

Do you know what he vilified him over?

What are we talking about?

This is the hip-hop that he'll talk about. Let me answer you. Let me answer you. Let me answer you actually. Also, is this the same Jeffree Star that said the N-word?

Let me answer you.

And called black woman nappy headed?

You don't want the answer.

I know this can't be the same Jeffree Star.

Let me answer you about MLK.

I've never said that.

Please stop lying.

Don't want the answer.

We literally have made that up. Oh my God. Google it. His top criticism.

I hear what you're saying, Jillian.

I absolutely understand what you're saying. You don't. Let me tell you his top criticism.

His top criticism.

How are you going to tell me what he said? We've seen what he said. I'm very familiar with what he said. Clearly you haven't. Clearly you haven't. point, USA at one point. So I'm very familiar with it. So tell me what is the scrutiny that the issue that I have is that

the scrutiny that you're letting it because it's totally antithetical

to your narrative.

He's not about antithetical.

It's about as far as fact checking. Then let me say check anything that he said I listen to anything that he said it I didn't ask that I asked you to fact check anything that he said? I didn't ask that. I asked, did you fact check anything that he said?

Every single thing.

Pierce, can this be muted?

Yeah, I don't really know what we're getting to, because every time she tries to explain to you, Lucas, you just talk over her.

Apologies, go ahead. By all means. Well, no, it's your perspective of what you said.

You don't seem to understand the concept of a debate. I'm here to listen to Jillian, and I'm trying to have a respectful conversation with her, but Jillian, do you understand why

there are a lot of people out there that are very-

There's nothing respectful about this, Brian. There's nothing respectful about how-

What did I say that was disrespectful to you? What did I say that was disrespectful?

The fact that, number one,

you wanna come from my swimming abilities is crazy.

That is crazy work. The fact, the fact, okay, you don't understand why I said that and I'm gonna try to explain it to you again. The reason why people know who you are is not because of your swimming. I'm sure you were a great swimmer. Brian, I did not ask for this. It's because you're on TV attacking transgenders.

I did not want to be doing this. This is not where I want to be. You don't accept money to make speeches? But it's people like you who talk so idiotically that continue to give me a platform. It's not even the words that I'm saying, it's the words that you're saying that give people

like me the same common sense normal people a platform.

I do find, I do find, Brian, I do find your line of attack on Riley utterly inexplicable because she did not create the situation. She lost a place in the top race because somebody thought it was a good idea for a 6 foot 3 inch male to compete in her race.

I don't feel that way.

That's what started this.

I want to ask one thing of Jeffrey before we finish this. Jeffrey, there was an allegation from Lucas there that you've used the N word. Do you want to respond to that? I think it's fair that you respond.

Listen, I've never called a black person that's been debunked. And the second thing you said, I've never said before.

So please stop lying.

We actually have video evidence of it. It's just the same lines that they're telling both me, Riley, and Charlie. Well, I think that the hypocrisy of the Republican when it comes to individuals like Jeffrey, when we have a party that's for marriage between a man and a woman, but then they celebrate or in some cases deride what happened with David Rubin and his marriage. I think it's hypocritical when it comes to Riley Gaines.

I think it's hypocritical when it comes to Riley Gaines talking about trans as Fox News hires Caitlyn Jennerner as we have Blair White and how the right is a friend of mine.

So what's your white as she I was with Dave Rubin last week.

Caitlyn Jenner, a man, Riley Gaines is Caitlyn Jenner, a man.

Yes. And I tell Caitlyn that he's a man. I tell Caitlyn, I will call you by Caitlyn. I will not use she, her pronouns.

This is what I when talking about me. You're using tokens. This is what the white does.

Whether it's black tokens.

Because I don't need you to affirm me. Whether it's trans tokens. I do what I do because I'm affirming myself. I don't need someone else to affirm the life that I live. That's what Kaitlyn says to me. How do you affirm yourself? really a part of that problem. I can be cordial with someone and still acknowledge

a problem.

That is a foreign concept to you and Brian, clearly.

Not me. Not me.

Not Charlie either, by the way.

Not Charlie either.

Can I just say, can I just have 20 seconds just to say one quick thing?

If that's OK, I appreciate it.

Don't talk the entire time. Excuse that's OK, I appreciate it. As long as it's 20 seconds. OK, excuse me.

Apologies.

Excuse me.

I care about kids. I care about women. Riley, I'm willing to believe that your heart is in the right place. I also, can I just finish my 20 second statement?

You talk about misogyny.

You are the most condescending, mansplaining individual.

I'm condescending when you support the guy

who bragged about grabbing women by the genitals.

Okay, you know what? We began this debate by talking about the importance of trying to all come together and have some unity and public discourse back to how it should be, and we've ended up as a squabbling barnyard. I'm gonna leave it there.

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