⚠️‼️ THIS WAS TOUGH 🥺 | Ft Sunitha Krishnan | Telugu Podcast | Raw Talks With VK

In 2015, an 18 year old girl was raped by 8 people. In that, they were laughing and staring at the camera eye to eye. I don't care what they do to me. Madam, this is the India of formation. Do you want a pregnant girl? Fat, Bobby Bobby Autistic child

Handicapped child What a shock! Fastest growing criminal enterprise Second largest organized crime in the world Multi-billion dollar industry There is an app called Telegram

You will get whatever you want Child, you need this content If I have to be very honest with you 3 minutes, 9000 videos Within seconds we get One buyer is delaying

I sent a message, where is this stuff? Sorry I am in tuitions Who is the seller? School student? College student? Every second for us is like a shock

We thought inserting your private part will make you shit But where was the need to insert a rod into a human? Go to Amsterdam

Where you can get violent shits Handcuffs 10 types of belts Where you can get violent *** Huh? Handcuffs, 10 different belts You decide which belt is a hunter item Abnormal *** With animals

With dead bodies

You want to ask me since the beginning?

I've been hit by a vehicle I've been hit by officers

What happened to your ear?

You're running inside a brothel

My height is the same, right?

What if I say this?

The kind of first incident that happened for you?

I still can't forget that day. That girl was holding me, her intestine was in my hand. Her father, with his friends, not only destroyed her, ok? Threw her on a railway track.

If God comes in front of me,

I will kill you with this very hand. You cannot do something like this to a child. Her own father, with his friends. I was 15 at least when I was gang raped.

By 8 men.

My father was called all kinds of names. They gave her a lot of freedom.

Isolation! Characterless. Salami! My father was called all kinds of names. He was given freedom. Vaishali!

Characterless.

Sarani!

In front of everyone, finally.

Ganesh!

I cannot forget my father's face.

The pride he had.

I'm Raju Krishnan, you know.

I'm her father. behind Parajvala Foundation, one of the world's largest anti-trafficking organization. Literally, over 32,000 women and children are being saved from sex trafficking, sheltered and rehabilitated. And in this process, she was attacked 18 times and broke 20 of her bones. Guys, this is not just a conversation. A single podcast can change the way we see the world. And a small reminder, the stories that we want to hear the least

are the stories that we should hear the most. Thank you very much for your love and support. Every day, a kind of energy is generated in the team. It's only because of your encouragement. Keep supporting to subscribe. I felt very proud in this journey.

To initiate the National Cybercrime Reporting Portal, Prachula Foundation and you, for your efforts and the kind of benefit that it is getting to the society. We remember the first time we sent an email, we remember the first time we stood in front of a camera. The same way, you are doing such a crime, about child pornography,

in the process of finding out how much prevalence there is on the internet, what was the initial time that you observed these are happening on the internet?

Child pornography is a word that is not used in the world today. That's a wrong word to use. Because in the world of pornography, there is a consensual sexual relationship. For children, there is no consent. There is no question of consent. 18 years is abusing. So, we are replacing this word with CSAM.

Child Sexually Abusive Material. We are replacing this word with CSAM. Child Sexually Abusive Material. So, my understanding of CSAM is I started working from a certain time. I remember when I was rescuing them, there were many CDs and DVDs to confiscate. During the rescue time,

we would get police as material evidence. So, there, all the CDs had some code words. This is pink, this is red, this is Swami, different is different different different things

So from there, I started to know about this so called pornography in the market It is for kids but for adults. There is a big menu for this It is different for normal sex, abnormal sex, sex with animals, sex with dead bodies, etc. So, in every brothel, we saw such content, CDs and DVDs. So, I was much aware of it.

At one point, I felt a little arrogant. I am a PhD. If I tell this to anyone, they will be like, oh, there are such people? Their eyes are opening up and you know, they will be in full shock. So there was a point when I thought that I am the universal PhD holder in this matter. At that time I went to the US. When I went to the US, an organization was working against violent sexual content. So, they took me to the library in a big hall in February. Okay. Big hall.

And this gentleman takes me to this room and says, Madam, this is the India corner.

Hmm.

I'm like shocked. This is...

Years of...

Lakhs of... You know, DVDs and CDs kept. And he says...

The content produced in India.

The content produced in India. What do you want? Do you want a pregnant child? Do you want a fat baby? Do you want an autistic child? Do you want a

handicapped child? That was my first time my eyes opened. This is a big industry. In this industry, India is playing a big role. From here, content is generated. This is the story I am telling from 1996-2000. So I was kind of you know quite I was not shocked at all.

There is such content, there is such content, there is such content, there is such content, I have seen such content, there is such a big market for it in Europe, in the US, I know all this. But in Europe, in the US, I know all this. But in 2015, two videos were sent to me by a concerned

citizen. Okay. With a lot of pain, he said, Madam, look at this once. I have to do something. So, that are not only striking but also nauseating. One is, a 12 year old girl is being gang raped by 8 people. Gang rape is not a big deal because I have also survived gang rape myself. But the expression on the faces of these 8 people, how happily they are doing such a disgusting thing. Even more than that, you know one character is masturbating and another character is asking to do the

same and show the video to them. And they are looking at the camera. This is not an engineered video, this is not a synthetic video, this is not a shooting video. This is a real rape incident. The rapist put his eye to eye with the camera and smiled. It is as if, you know,

I don't care what they do to me. I don't care a damn. That hit me hard. Where have we come to? This kind of impunity. When you are behaving so worst, you don't have shame, you don't have shame or fear when you behave in such a worst manner.

You are showing it as if you have done something great in front of the society. That hit me hard. I can't tell you how hard it was. I vomited for the next two hours. My body could not handle that anger, you know. The second thing that hit me hard was this particular video was already forwarded more than 2,000 to 3,000 times.

These were the facts that I was able to gather in the next few hours. Our next few hours for me changed my position. I said, I did a lot of work from 1996 to 2015. But after what I am doing now in 2015, from now on, my step should be a little different. I have to take these people head on.

Right.

You know, what should I do, what should I do? I am getting a clarity. But at the time of coming, I did not think, I thought the whole world will be with me. I could not even imagine why people do't support me on such a thing. I am not, I know, gang rape content, that content, we will do all this with you.

My resolve was even tighter there.

So can we talk about what made them react like that? Why did they react like that?

God knows. Because at that time, I don't know if you remember or not, but in 2015, there was a incident in Old City called Snake Gang. Oh yeah yeah. These boys and girls, boyfriend and girlfriend, you know, in remote areas, they were caught, raped, hit by boys, catching snakes. That gang was also, that story also happened at that time. I don't know who got hurt, if I don't take this forward. So in your profile, you were not able to sustain and you posted it, right? Because it went from our social media, they reacted like that. So what I did immediately within 24 hours was, I posted the same videos. And I blurred the images of the victims. I highlighted the images of the men and requested

and appealed to the world saying that if they will ever show me, I want to report about them. By then, you know, attacks started from all ends. Cases, etc. A strange atmosphere started in Old City. from all ends. Case, everyone started a strange environment in the old city. I was based in the old city.

Because everything came in the media. At that time, I went to the government. Government means Government of India.

I lodged a case here. Everyone saw the video and said, this is not our area. this is not our state. It doesn't belong to us. So where should this be reported? Okay, let's go to the Government of India.

They all behaved well. I don't think anybody behaved with me improperly. Everyone behaved well. Everyone gave me good sound, good words, what I wanted to say, they made me hear everything. Nothing moved. I did not sleep after watching that video.

I showed those videos to the highest level officers of the Ministry of Home Affairs, the highest level officers, I showed them the videos one by one. Even then, nothing is bothering them. I waited for 10 days. Then I went to the Supreme Court. And even in the Supreme Court, I don't have confidence in anyone. I have a group of lawyers there who represent us.

But definitely, at that time, I can say that it was a temporary period in that temporary period, I didn't have confidence in anyone I thought, I should be the one to argue this, I should argue my case myself, party in person

I went to the Supreme Court of course, after 4 hearings I lost my enthusiasm then I understood that giving speech is not arguments in court, we have to argue I was so excited, I understood that it was not giving a speech, but arguments. Do we have to argue in court?

We lawyers look at everything with a small eye. But we don't understand that arguments are a lot of work. You have to read up a lot, you have to know the constitution, you have to know the legal statutes. Within the framework of the law, you have to argue. This is not a speech given in the field.

Big words, emotional words, punchlines, all of it, judges will listen, judges will listen respectfully, but nothing can move their hand. Yes. And I remember the first time I gave a big speech, there were big lawyers in front of me, big means very high profile lawyers, big lawyers like Kapil Sibal, who represented companies like Facebook.

At that time.

Siddharth Luthra was there. All of them were big people. I gave a very emotional speech in front of them. After giving such a big emotional speech, some very big landmark judgment comes in seconds.

They listened to everything well. And then it's over. It happened for the first time. I didn't go to ask anyone. I mean, I would get proud, right? That we gave such an excellent speech about us.

We were happy. First time nothing happened. Second time, I gave another speech.

In the second hearing?

In the second hearing. Everything happened practically in day to day hearing. The Supreme Court gave all the importance. Privatization. Justice Lokur and Justice Lalitha were there. So, after the second day speech, I was a bit confused.

What is this? They are not doing anything.

There is no movement.

There is no movement. They have to take a pencil and write something. They have to note down some points. But they are not doing anything. They are listening to me fully. What is this?

Even the opposition lawyers, defense lawyers are not opposing me. So, all together I am feeling very good.

You know.

But, when the second time also when I came, I realized that I had a spelling mistake somewhere. So, then I remember coming out and CBI senior director, officer, Raja sir, he also went out. I asked him, sir, what is this? I am giving you speeches, he is not issuing an entry model, what the hell is happening? So he very sweetly looked at me and said, man you know you don't get Supreme Court orders by speeches. You have to find a solution within the framework of law. Within the framework of law, you have to bring an alternative.

The Supreme Court works on that kind of thing. Not only Supreme Court, any court. You have to have some principle, some proper framework. Third time when I went, I took the Constitution, the existing laws, POCSO, okay, Information Technology Act, I framed it and said,

we can do this according to this section. It's been 10 days now, plus and 4 days more to go

I have seen videos coming out and 10 days have passed and it is already forwarding

14 days have passed I saw the video on 5th February and started the campaign on 6th The campaign was about hashtag shame the rapist. So 22nd, 23rd is already towards the end of February. At this time, everyone in the world, many people in India thought I am the universal dumping ground. Everyone's conscience was raised a little bit because of this campaign. Everyone started sending me videos.

So my email is getting filled with such videos. Madam, look, we have seen it too. We have seen it here on WhatsApp. We have seen it here on YouTube. We have seen it there. We have seen it here. Everybody is, as if I am the reporting authority. And then I wrote a letter to some people. I said, why the hell are you sending it to me, boss? I am a citizen like you and I am a lay person like you. So why are you sending all this to me? He said, where should we send it?

We are not interested in complaining. If you complain, we have you are doing the right thing. We don't want to become a complainant, but you are doing the right thing. We are telling you and maybe you will report it to the right person. So that was one of the things I spoke in the Supreme Court. I said, why should I become the reporting authority?

If everyone in India starts sending me, how does it work? You create a mechanism and in that mechanism, you give an option to report anonymously. Everyone is not interested in becoming a complainant.

They are afraid of that.

Why should my name come up? Why should I testify in court? I should be a witness. I should go to the police station a hundred times. Nobody is interested in that. So please give an opportunity

that a person can anonymously report. If such content comes up, immediately report it. So that was what led to the landmark judgment. Cybercrime.gov.in. Right.

And there is an option right? Anonymous and directly. So you can give a link to someone without telling their name and you want that to get removed. Exactly.

You can immediately select anonymous without revealing your name and put a link. Not only that, such absolutely violent content or wrong content, if you happen to get it by chance, like WhatsApp or something, if you see it forwarded in some group, you have an option to report. Okay. That first, because that was what I said, you know, Justice Lokur, when we were talking in the open court,

this is what I said. First of all, let us create the mechanism. Right. Then we will know how much is there. If people are talking about how much is there today, it is because of a portal like that.

But at the same time, there was a little disbelief. Can it really be this much? So one of my prayers...

The prevalence of the content?

Yes.

Is she exaggerating so much? I saw a lot of such thoughts in some people's quotes You can see that in the words So one of my prayers in the Supreme Court PIL In the PIL I put, basically I took four prayers One, create a system to report such content

Second, report Right Second Every video that I am recording, please hand it over to CBI to investigate When will you investigate

other things, secondary boss? It came into my hands Many people trusted me All this to be handed over to CBI. Thirdly, I couldn't forget those men smiling and looking and laughing and telling somebody

else, do this with your mobile, look at me, take me too. I could not forget that face. to United States, and in Europe there is a system called as a sex offenders registry. It's a public space, public portal. Convicted sex offenders are there and their photos are available. According to the system there are many procedures including GPS tracking. Pedophiles, sex offenders, small children, child predators, child pedophiles,

such sex offenders should not come near schools. Children's institutions should not be there. There are many such systems. Suppose you are in a community, in Himalayas, and you are thinking of taking a house here,

you can actually check, are there any sex offenders in this area? Where should I take my house? United States has one of the most robust sex offenders registry. More than 40 countries have it in different forms but US system, I checked it, understood the efficacy and I found it very... I found that this could be one way to bring deterrence. A little fear.

If you do, your reputation will be ruined for life. Your photo will be on that website for a long time. So, that was my third prayer. In India, we should also have a sex offenders registry. The fourth thing, which is very important to me, I felt that a 12 year old girl is being raped,

12 people are raping her, or 8 people are raping her, this kind of content came to me. Doesn't this platform have a responsibility? To keep the platform clean. Of course. To keep it safe. By misusing this platform, no one, not even for wrong content,

by using this platform, to deceive someone, or misuse it. So what is the accountability of technological firms? Right. How much accountability do tech firms have?

By design, not by default, by design, take a security on their platforms. You know, it could be pop-ups or it could be reviewing your content. Keeping all the parameters of freedom of speech, keeping all the parameters of privacy, I find it is a misnomer. There is no such thing as privacy. You keep your mobile close and talk about high design, next minute you will start getting advertisements of everything is heard everything is there. But in spite of that accountability framework, we have to bring it to tech firms. So I'm so

happy to say Vamsi, the Supreme Court took you know cognizance of all my four prayers. In all four prayers, he gave a wonderful response. One, all videos went to CBI for investigation. The investigation was done,

and the court came to know how big this problem is. Right. The first case they cracked was a builder. Okay. Kaliya Sahu.

Okay.

This guy is based out of Bhubaneswar. He raped his receptionist and used that video to blackmail her and also sold that video on porn sites. He was one of the first person to get arrested. What happened in that arrest was, everyone who uploaded the content,

they caught the person who made the content. After uploading and disseminating the content, the buyer and seller had to come to a logical conclusion. Who is the person who brought the contact? They did a complete investigation. If you investigate who the person who brought the contact is, A 10th standard dropout in Bangalore, with great computer skills,

He was the one who was caught. He was working in driving. And that boy, in his laptop, A couple of thousands of such content, All this was given in the cover in the Supreme Court. That is when the judges understood. The scale of the problem. I am not exaggerating. It's not a

one-of-its-kind that I've said. I've just brought you know just a dot of the entire situation out. It's a Pandora's box you know. And therefore, after that understanding Supreme Court became extremely serious. A committee was constituted by we are also a part of that committee. In that, all tech firms were asked to sit in that committee. All the giants. Intermediary guidelines were developed there.

So, today in India, there are intermediary guidelines. If you see on WhatsApp, there is a report button. Yes. That came because of our case. Similarly, there are many safeguarding things on facebook. But you will see a pop up in google. If you browse any child related content, you will see a pop up. Anything related to you know children and sex is illegal. So, these kinds of guidelines came under these intermediary guidelines.

Sex offenders registry did not happen as I expected. Definitely the court accepted that this as a very necessary action. But the government of India was not very keen. Not only the government of India, the government of Telangana is also not keen. The government of Kerala is also not keen. The government of Andhra Pradesh, they took away this registry.

Because to get this registry, to get it in a state, there should be a state legislation. To get it nationally, there should be a national legislation. Only if there is this legislation, it will be possible to do this. So I tried a lot. I tried, but I failed. But I did not pass.

I got half the results. What we have today is a database in the National Crime Records Bureau, NCRB. All sex offenders have a database in our hands. This is not public data. This is data that is only accessible to private enforcement officers.

Like the data we get for investigations.

So that work is still continuing. It's been nearly 11 years. It's 2025 now. So in 11 years, you know, or rather 10 years, in 10 years we have travelled this far. But the struggle has not stopped here. Of course, ma'am. It's still on. Hope very soon that will be ready and available to the public. We need a little political will. In some matters, society as a whole has to take a decision. These are zones which are zero tolerance.

Very true.

At this point, there cannot be any compromise. We will create a lot of flexible things about adults, like consent, rights, etc. At least with children, we have to have a zero tolerance policy. Here, no means no. This is it. Somewhere, I don't see that social will. Similarly, I don't see that will, that social will. I don't see the same political will. If there is no political will, no social will, nothing will happen.

There should be something. The whole society should say, no means no. In the meantime, somebody else goes to the Supreme Court and says, okay, age of consent, let's bring it down. Okay, there are many people in this society who create such confusions. close to the Supreme Court says that okay age of consent is okay. Atlantic confusions created.

So, the people have to take a decision to break that. If someone does this to our children, we will not tolerate it. wrong wrong things, zero problem, you know, you know, absolutely, you know, we do things without tolerance. If someone puts a flag here, it becomes communal rights. If a small 5cm land is lost, it goes to the Supreme Court.

There is no resistance, no tolerance in such things.

There is no tolerance in such things. But if you have been raped by a 4 month old baby Oh no, is this happening? That's it Next day you have forgotten and you have moved on There you are not bringing zero tolerance

And that is where zero tolerance is necessary When you say no, this cannot happen. That is it. Even now in our country, sex offender of a child, of an adult, is he the one facing the stigma?

Is he the one who is facing the shame? Is he the one who is facing the guilt? You all have thrown all that on the victim, right? Okay, he should hide his face. He himself is not saying anything. We got a case just 10 days back. A 11 year old girl.

Her father's brother, here in Hyderabad, the uncle, is continuously raping her. The girl is completely damaged in her inner areas. She has, an Anganwadi worker will bring this information to us. Okay, mother, because injuries are there, mother will take her to a private hospital. Private hospital, don't come here, go to Nilofar.

Okay, all of them as per the law, they are all mandated. If you have a case like this, you have to do 100% mandatory reporting. Section 19 of POCSO mandates. If you have a beard on any child, if you have a beard, you have to report it as mandatory. If you don't do it, you can go to jail. This is in the box. Even then, what do these private hospitals do? Wash their hands and go to Nilofer.

In Nilofer, the doctor there will also check. She will also know. She will try to motivate. Madana, you file a case. This is not good. She will say, no, no, give me some medicine, I will go, and takes it.

Doctor is mandated to speak, she has also not reported. What does she do? DCPO, that is District Child Protection Unit, tells them, you go and tell. You are going to the bride's house, going to the bride's house, this happened, nothing happened like this.

Okay?

And they say, I will give it in writing. Yes, I will give it in writing. Nothing happened? Nothing happened. Okay? Why is that mother saying like that? That mother knows, if he speaks, all the shame, guilt, the whole world, she will look at him with a small look. She should be the one to go behind the police station.

She should be the one to struggle for 10-15 years to get justice for her daughter. We have 21 cases, 22 cases, and she still hasn't come to the trial. How long should she remember that this has happened to her? No closure.

When it opens, I'll sit. No closure. Okay. Okay. Okay.

In fact, if not a child, they will say this is also a fake case. There are chances to say that. So, somewhere we have to take a decision as a society. Should we put shame on anyone in this kind of a house? We have to shift. We have to shift our perspective.

We have put it here till now. Not here. This is not the person who deserves that. This is the person who deserves that. Shift it. Then you will get a little fear. If you do, everyone will look at me with a small eye.

It will be difficult to go out. I will not get a job. Where should I go? I will not get married. This is what you tell your daughter. If this happens, what will happen if this happens?

What will happen? No one will give you anything. You will lose your dignity. All these feelings should come to him. He should lose his dignity. As a society, Vamsi, we have failed.

We have failed as humanity. Because this is not only an Indian story. In every country, you know, unequal way of looking at sexual violence is everywhere. And that's where I feel so unhappy that we will never get that social will. We don't have sex offenders registry.

We don't have anything else. Because our loyalty is with the wrong person.

Actually, this book made me or taught me that even if you read books, you can see it visually. Whether it's good or bad, sadness or happiness. Sometimes, it's a proud moment. I felt like I was watching a movie. There is an initial chapter called Prologue, where you mentioned, when I wanted to kill the God, after starting with that title,

while reading that chapter, again you contradict that statement. After that, it may not be that, it may not be that, it may be a good decision. Not a contradiction, but a better realization. I wanted to talk about that. If you can talk about that chapter. First of all, talking about that chapter, why did you put it in the first place? We'll talk about it.

First of all, I wanted to tell you something about the book.

And I heard a lot. So many people tried something about the book. And I heard a lot. So many people tried to not write the book. How much effort did you have to put in to write it?

Even after it came, there was a big conspiracy that no one should read it. But apart from that, writing a book, in a special circumstance, I thought of writing a book. I wrote this book in 13 days.

Oh, I and that?

14 hours every day. Before writing this book, I asked myself some fundamental questions. Why am I writing this? Secondly, what should be the world's benefit from this?

Thirdly, how far should I tell?

So many things have happened in my life. I have relatives, my parents. When my father was not there, I had my mother, my brother is there, my sister is there, my sister is there. There is a whole world, I know people. So how much should everybody know? Right. And how far should I say?

Because a person from a a lower middle class family was raped by a gang. After that, he had to get a divorce and bring his daughters back. He had to give them a new life. their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, their life, family, but not the people outside. Whatever. So, how much time should I spend outside?

Is there any benefit in telling all this? Is there any benefit to anyone? One more thing, many people in this journey, many people I have missed many people getting very irritated. Many have become enemies. Many people's BP goes up when they see me. So, is there any use in taking away their dignity?

What they did, they are doing, they are still doing. Is there any benefit to me by saying all that? One is, maybe I will make them famous. But what benefit will I get by making them famous? When I was writing, I was 50. So, maybe I will be a few more years.

I have to see all these faces. So, I had to draw my lines. So, in this book, more or less 40-45% of my life is there. Rest is not there. That's my caveat, first caveat. Then, next to in the life flow,

I have already done this much. By design, I have filtered out. After filtering out, how to set the context. Okay. One, this kind of things are happening.

Second, So, this is what is happening. Secondly, what is the impact of seeing this in a person like me? What are the confusions that we are experiencing? What are the dilemmas that we are experiencing? The world should know this too. It is not an easy way. Oh, it is happening there, we did it slowly. So that's why I picked this incident.

In this incident, this problem has a total face. In this incident, my confusion

has a complete face. Because...

1997 5 am in the morning In Valaknama, on a railway track face. Because... When she saw her family, to her shock, a 4 year old girl, drenched in blood, not in her senses, struggling with some breath, trying to take her to the hospital, her intestines came out of her private parts,

her internal parts were severely damaged, doctors in the hospital couldn't understand the situation. She's been gang raped. And one of the gang members is her father. Yes, this really happened. And this gang member is her father. Yes, this really happened. And this is where the book begins.

I still can't forget that day. Even now. That girl was holding me, her intestine was in my hand, I was carrying this little one, we were running,

we were coming to the auto,unamu, Osmania ke ustunamu, A time lo, am paapa mokam chusi, You know, you question God. And the title of that chapter is exactly what I thought at that time. If God comes before me, I will kill him with the same hand.

You cannot do something like this to a child. You know, you are watching it and such a horrifying thing is happening. That was what I felt through the whole process It took me many years to process it It took me many years to understand At that time

That constable didn't call me He is God incarnate At that time...

You remember him and call him.

Yes. At that time, I was like, you know, why me? I won't come. I can't say, I will come. Abbarani Abbai came with me.

Jaffer Bhai came with me. He took an auto. It was on the railway track. On the railway track., on the railway track Our Falaqunwa, Avathala

So many people came

None of them had any connection with this girl We came We took the girl We took her in the same auto and admitted her in Osmania Those doctors

When the first doctor saw her Who was the beast who did it that was the first point but that didn't stop them from medically you know doing their act you know our ethics medical ethics now compromise All these people could have just left that child. So you know God has a plan. You know. A worst of humanity, bestality. That is where we start seeing God closely you know in that humane gesture in that humanity that is beyond anything else.

Na kanpichindhi this is a reflection of my life actually you know. Na na life lo itilanti ennu dialamas uchchunai. You know. Eem cheyala,mmas in my life. You know, what to do, what not to do, how to do it, how not to do it. What is trust? Okay, like that. And that's why I thought if I start from here, the story will be better.

Approximately how many years has it been since this incident?

Exactly how many?

Approximately how many years has it been since this incident?

This, the incident of the baby. How many years has it been since this incident? Exactly how many? Approximately how many years has it been since this incident? This...Papadhe incident?

Papadhe, yeah. 97, so 29 years.

And today she is an advocate, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And doing very well.

Great.

When I was reading, I got so much disturbed, to be honest, I'm sorry.

You should be disturbed, that is why it is written there. You know, this book is not to make you feel as if you should be happy about what is happening. But you should also feel the sense of hope, Vamsi, because this is not a story of only hopelessness. It's also a story of resilience. That girl, her own father, did it with her friends. Even then, she trusted another person. And she trusted me.

Just imagine all of us, Mamshi. In small things. We saw a story on TV today, that politician did something, all the politicians are horrible. There was an ACB raid, we caught a police officer, all the police officers are corrupt. We want to judge people. We want to give up on humanity. We want to give up on hope. Nothing is happening well. Complaining every day. In such small disappointments, disappointment, you know, hope, suicide, okay. Atlanti situation, you know,

okay, person whom she has trusted the most, her own father with his friends, not only destroyed her, okay, threw her on a railway track okay she naughtily came out of it okay she found herself. They thought that she is dead. She is dead she left her. She came out of it, physically recovered, emotionally recovered, studied, competed with normal kids, completed 10th, intercompleted, completed law, worked as a lawyer. That's all. No, it's not just human

miracle, that is what hope and life is all about and that is what resilience is all about. You should learn that from this book. As much as the problem pains you, the way that problem has been handled by those affected by those problem should give you hope and you know, a sense of possibility. Anything is possible, boss. If you decide,

this world cannot defeat me. You can victimize me, look at me as a small-time, you cannot give me a chance to come back to this world, even then I will still, you know, Maya Ang I was fortunate to walk with them.

Such wonderful warriors, heroes. This is their story, which I have been able to write. And when you were talking about the society thought process, I remembered one thing. In Public City, I came across this term, secondary victimization. Like you said, after 10-15 years of trials, the court started the trial. Then again, that girl, she might have got married. Even after marriage, she would come in that drama again, explaining everything. You have to believe that this happened to me.

This secondary victimization is not just then, Vamsi. From the case, it starts and ends. Because, in our country, we say a lot of things. But, how is our intellect? The same intellect is there for the police too. Because they too are from the same society.

They are not coming from planet Venus or planet Mars. Our same society, our intellect, our way of thinking, it is the same thing. So, the victim should turn and get justice. So to give a statement, from that statement 164 statement, from that 164 statement accused identification, after, investigation, charge sheet, in this whole process, it is she who is getting churned. Okay.

You should have minimum inconvenience. This setup is not there in our house. No. What happens every time, especially when it is about children, at least, there is a little sympathy to the extent. Especially if it is below 12.

If it is about small children, everyone gets a little emotional. If it is a 12 year old boy, why did she go there? Is there an affair with that boy? There could be a 100% elope case. Something like that. By 14-15 years, everything will be further in other lens.

Like, when Nirbhaya's incident happened, a political leader said, Why did she go out so late at night? Everything has to be answered from her perspective. We are doing secondary victimization at every level. This victimization of the victim, this is our norm. Okay, how do we change this norm?

How do we change the way and the way of thinking. That is something that each one of us have to reflect.

And ma'am, if we talk about these offenders, the offenders who are committing these crimes, I always used to have this doubt. Now that we are on the topic, I ask this question to myself. Yesterday, there was a Telugu movie called Rakhi,

by NTR. There is a dialogueugu movie called Rakhi, by NTR. There was a dialogue in the last quote. At that time, I was wondering, if you are doing it for pleasure, if you insert your private part, you will get pleasure. But where was the need to insert a rod into a human? What will you get from that?

I don't even have the right to say that. But what might have been the motive? In your journey, you might have got a chance to talk to these criminals or people who have offended these kind of crimes.

Can I ask you, what did you understand or at least, did you understand anything and did you get any scope to talk to them?

A little bit. I don't have a deep understanding to claim. But it is very important for us to understand that sexual abberration can be a psychiatric problem or a mental illness. The root cause of this is that in our country or in the world, there is no acceptance that homosexuality is happening done on boys. It is done on girls.

Everyone has this acceptance. And because of that acceptance, girls can say or can't say, whichever. But at least they have an opening. Because the society agrees, it can happen on them like this.

And that is why we focus more on girls. Stay like this, stay like that, sit like this, sit like that, you shouldn't go like this, you shouldn't go like that, you should come at this time. Okay, because there is acceptance in the mind that these things will happen to girls. These things will happen to boys too. This understanding is not there in us.

In a situation where this understanding is not there, things are happening. Things are happening to boys too. We don't have this understanding. In a situation where we don't have this understanding, it is happening. It is happening on boys too. It is happening on sodomy.

Men can abuse men. Women can abuse men. It is not that only men are abusers. Some women also have sexual abuse. In an unacceptable situation, in an unacceptable situation,

what is the situation of this man? He has an unresolved psychological crisis he is dealing with. A study says that if we can't resolve the sexual abuse in boys, the chances of such boys becoming abusers are very high. their pain to heal and somewhere it builds up, builds up, builds up. This is one of the various theories that has been said.

But definitely we need to understand, a very sadist, sadomasochist, violent person like a masochist, like he is exerting power, I will be satisfied only if I do this. This is a thought. This is also a a psychiatric abrasion. Another situation is, what is sex?

What is acceptable sex? There is no definition for this. Now you go to Amsterdam, there are brothels there, legalized. Legal brothels. If you go inside one of these brothels, you will find yourself in a very good environment, in a very sterilized environment,

You mean brothels?

Yes, brothels. There are different corners, where you can get violent sex. Okay? You can have sex with handcuffs, belts,

there are 10 types of belts, displayed on the display. You decide which belt to wear. Hunter items, cage, boxes, you have to pay extra for that. You can hurt a person. So, for this kind of things, you have done this in a very sanitized environment.

Other than that, what is right, what is wrong? This is a spectrum. But if you do this on a person, on a child, on an 18 year old below, 150% unacceptable. 18 years below me the chest a hundred and fifty percent unacceptable but above 18 cuda consent like a meridith is there a commensurate okay it is not acceptable of course okay no matter what you do okay but what is sexual satisfaction

cannot be defined at the yoga chala lengthy space and that is why, you know, when we talk about violence, we talk about consent.

Okay.

And the informed consent, consent in an environment that the person is able to give the consent. Okay. You are sitting in a brothel without any access, he is pumping from there, the brothel keeper is pumping from here, you come and tell him, the customer will give, you have to take it.

Where is the consent, boss?

Okay.

That is 150% exploitation.

Okay.

So, it is difficult to say what is right and what is wrong. But from a psychological perspective, it is necessary. Different countries have sex offender support programs where a psychiatrist is involved. Mental health professionals are involved.

To understand what is running in their mind.

Not only running, but they are given medication. They are treated in jail as a part of a sex offenders support program. So that has to be understood from a... In our country, such long-term investigations have not happened. And understanding men or male abusers or any abuser, sex abuser from a mental health perspective

on this study is lacking in our country

This is shocking Rathalos's legalism is heard as a bit weird, but with such options, violence you can opt for violence by paying extra. Two days back, I watched a small reel where you were speaking about a small operation in Telegram.

Can we talk about that operation once?

There are traffickers and predators spread on every platform. Today, their landscape is big, their ground is big, their ground is big.

It has come from dark web to normal surface level.

It is only on surface level. You don't go to dark web, you are talking only on surface level. You have internet, you are on facebook, you are on insta, you are on snapchat. Many people are watching you.

Okay?

Whether it is men or women, many people are watching you. And there are predators watching you, there are traffickers watching you. So, how do you expose your vulnerability? Many people are waiting to spot that. This is a weak candidate. Right. people are waiting for you. This is a weak candidate. For example, a lady who is experiencing

a lot of isolation, she doesn't have friends, you can easily say that. You are not a big rocket science for that. You put a photo of yours like only you, you are taking it, you are not with anyone, you do not have friends, you keep putting photos like this, automatically if we profile some photos, it will be understood that she has no friends. Number one, she likes herself, you know, and there is a certain amount of, you know, vacuum, emotional vacuum she is going through. And she wants people to like her.

So this is how the predators think and identify.

This is how people profile you, right? So, in this, while we were studying, we understood that people can pick up on webisara from anywhere. They can pick up on Facebook, on Instagram, on Snapchat, Snapchat, dating sites, matrimonial sites. So, in this process, someone told me, Madam, there is an app called Telegram. Here you can get whatever you want. Anything, no matter what.

I said, how can you get it so blatantly? He said, no no madam, you go and check. So, at that time, I went there. My cyber investigator was also there with me. We both got down in the app. My cyber investigator is also with me. We both got into the app.

And our first trial was, let us look at CSAM. Child Sexually Abusive Method. How easy can we find this? We were saying that we can find anything, but I found this so tough.

Can we find this too? I found that all this can find it in the dark web or surface web. So we said, okay, we'll first try that. Let's start with the most difficult. Before that, we asked for a kidney. Within 15 minutes, all the sellers and buyers came to us.

We got a good menu come to give kidney, we will give you accommodation in this particular house. look at the beautiful luxury and the whole package came into it. Not only that, we also got investment plans. We will give you this much, you invest this much in this house, so your money will double, etc. So, a big package. Everything is happening.

That I thought was so easy. You know, and I was thinking, okay, so this Augant trade is happening very easily. So, in the trial, we wrote, child rape. This content is required. If I have to be very honest with you, it took 3 minutes.

In 3 minutes, 2 big groups contacted me. In each group, 35,000 members, subscription, members there. These two groups contacted me in less than three minutes. That means 70,000 people are in touch with me now. All of them are sellers. Okay.

We will give, we will give, we will give. Next 15 minutes, my whole world vision has changed. Because in the next 15 minutes, many people in this group are sending me menu cards. Menu card means actual menu card. How will you get a menu card in a restaurant? It's like that menu card where small child, big child, happy child, dark child, fat child Menu card like this

Every second for us is like a shock It's like this in our country Then I started I said, okay, let go. Let's go to the next step. Someone will buy it for me. I paid in that next 15 minutes. For the videos you selected and paid? Okay. A small amount. 40 rupees, 50 rupees. Similarly, I made a 8-9 transaction through phone pay, PayTM. I paid altogether 532 rupees.

532 rupees. In this 532 rupees, I was able to purchase 9000 videos of Indian children in less than 15 minutes. In between that, we have already paid money to one buyer, we are paying to other buyers and within seconds we are getting the links. Okay. If we send this to one buyer, he is

delaying it for 5 seconds, 5 minutes, 10 minutes it is delayed. So, I sent a message. Brother, where is this stuff? Reply, sorry I am in tuitions. Suddenly, you know, you are thinking, who is the seller? Could this be a small boy

or a girl, school student, college student? Somebody who is going to tuitions means it must be a student. So who are these sellers? Do the middle class kids know what they are selling? What kind of bad, worst crime industry are they fostering? Do they get any idea about this? You know, 9000 videos. I filed a case with CID of Telangana.

I have to say this with a lot of pain. In 2023, I filed the case on November 14th. It's been 2 years since then. Till now, the case has not been filed. If this is the kind of priority that government gives, even if somebody like me has gone, checked,

I am taking all the data and putting it on your head. Take it, see it. Okay? You are sitting like a star. Why wouldn't this grow with impunity? You have an enabling environment from all the places to do all this. To stop this, to bring out the fear, what kind of stringent action has to be taken, this becomes.

You just made a small comparison of what is wrong. While you are saying this, I am not sure whether you got a chance to go through that trend or not. I think some videos like season 1, season 2 or part 1, part 2 got viral. Recently, 15 days back, a guy and a girl with their consent shot a video and left it for 2-3 parts. I found out about this video trend after 2 days or 1 and a half days. I was just casually scrolling through Instagram and I saw a video where there is a screenshot of the two of them. If you want a video, comment below.

In Instagram, there are threads about what he would do if you comment. You send it to Telegram, you send it to that, you send it to that, and discussions are happening. Okay, scroll. The next video is the same. I myself have 20 videos on Instagram which are provoking and encouraging. you send it to telegram, you send this, you send that, and discussions are happening. Okay, scroll. Next video is the same. Similarly, I have 20 videos on Instagram

which are provoking the viewers here to go, you are missing out something. Go fast, check it out in the link.

Check it out. So, question mark about the consumer. Question mark on the people who do it.

Who is wrong in that?

You know, see there is a market. If we have 9000 videos, minimum 9000 people are watching.

You pay 500rs.

See any market works on demand and supply boss.

Absolutely.

Demand is us. We are demanding for such content. So morality is going under shambles. Humanity is going under shambles. Forget about morality, humanity is going under shambles. Nothing is getting pinched or getting wet. I can see your face and your expressions are changing.

So I'll take a break.

I want to talk about some incidents in this book. Especially, I don't know about your past until I read this book and read some chapters. What happened to you? I'm sorry to get this topic, but what happened to, when you were in school, when you were fighting for remedial classes or supporting others in the village, the kind of worst incident that happened for you, against you, how did the people around you see it? How did they talk to you?

After that, you still... Did you really come out of that incident

I don't know if I came out of that incident or not, the world didn't come the world is still sitting with the same tag, that rape survivor did so much you have to be qualified as a rape survivor to do all this work this is a mentality of the world. They have not come out. I have come out.

As much as one can come out. Some of the scars are something that will last for a lifetime. And you are constantly working on it. You are constantly working with your trauma, you're constantly working with your post-traumatic stress disorder, you create your own coping skills. Each one of us is a warrior within ourselves. So our fight is happening. That's easy. The world's baggage is a is difficult. The tags that were put on me at that time, and the tags that are still put on me,

I think even now, in March, you will see some Instagram reels, she was raped at so and so, and now she is saving other people. Is rape some kind of a pre-qualification to be saving girls? You are kind of trivializing her capacity or his capacities, his talent is whatever acumen that person has, you know. More than 200 people are there as staff. I run one of the largest organization in the world doing what I'm doing. That's not because I'm a rape survivor, boss.

That's also because that is because I'm a good social entrepreneur, you know, and that I have organizational skills, you know, I have, you know, extraordinary leadership skills. So identify me with my qualities, you know, not by what happened in an incident. That is not my identity. That is an incident. That incident triggered many things in my life. That incident is not a tag in my life.

You know, it is not a permanent hashtag that I put on my face. You know, permanent hashtag, that is something very few people understand. I still remember it vividly. When you and your husband were there at some event, someone came and without even looking at your face, went directly to your husband,

gave a shake hand,

and thanked you for rehabilitating her.

My husband didn't know where to look.

The next line, you mentioned it, this was the first time for both of us, I didn't know how to react. How realistic it is.

Even now, I feel the same. I would not know what to do. Do I have to thank him? Do I have to thank anyone? My husband was like, we just walked off. You know, but there are people like that. You know, you want to and it's very interesting. Sometimes sad, but it's very interesting. Changing mindsets is a big obstacle in life.

101%

Yeah

And, ma'am can I ask you, it might be very simple to ask, but the rescue operations you mentioned and the attacks you faced, can we talk about those attacks?

What about those attacks?

I've been wanting to ask you since the beginning.

What happened to your ears? I know from the time I started. I am not going to deal with anything. I am going to fight against a crime that is happening in a small incident.

Biggest crime. It is the second largest organized crime in the world. The fastest growing criminal enterprise,

okay.

Some multi-billion dollar industry. I knew this only when I started. So if I hit this industry, will they come and give me Padma Shri, or will they put garlands in my neck and give me a Satkara. I mean, how foolish is that?

So getting beaten up is what I asked for. If I didn't do that, I would have felt bad. If they didn't beat me up, if they didn't touch me, I would have felt very bad. I'm telling you honestly. Amma, I didn't do anything.

This is called Satkaram.

Yes, I mean, honestly, you know Vamsi, I get it. Honestly, you know Vamsi, see which industry you work in, you are also in the corporate world, right? Every company has an indicator, right? Performance markers. Your company is doing well, you have some indicators, right?

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. I also had some indicators, boss. How would I know if my work is going in the right direction? I should get hit. If I don't get hit, then I have not hit them. If they get hit, I should get hit. The first time when I was getting beaten up,

I was bleeding profusely. I thought, I have got Bharat Ratna now. This is my best thing in my life and I should not go to the doctor today. How should I show the blood? I have seen the blood in the mirror 2-3 times, is it there or not? It is there, it is a painful pain, but still for one day I did not go to the doctor.

I enjoyed that experience of correction. Of course, anything like this you have to pay the price. Natchavu was my first casualty. We call it collateral damage. So, I underwent two surgeries. How many surgeries? So, two surgeries were done. Two surgeries were done.

How long were you with the hearing? I had partial hearing. Now, I had hearing aid in the middle. But, I left it later. But, now I am in a situation where I have to get hearing aid again. The hearing is compromised completely.

Someone punched you right? See when you're running inside a brothel, my height is this much, right? If you hit like this, it can hit the nose, it can hit the ears, it can hit the back anywhere. So ear was something that got hurt multiple times. So, eardrum perforated, nose, if you can see the nasal septum broken, some body parts, battle scars, marks after the battle, my hearing is one of the battle scars that I carry. And I carry it with pride. I can see that. But sometimes it becomes very embarrassing. Sometimes, especially when I am in tension, I cannot hear completely. I will become completely So, once in the Supreme Court, a case called Budhadev Karmaskar is happening.

That Budhadev Karmaskar case is a very interesting case. A customer murdered a girl named Bela. So, that case, Justice Markandeya Kaju came first.

And... Rehabilitation of women in prostitution started somewhere.

But it got hijacked from somewhere.

Okay.

There is a group in India,

who are fighting for the status of a sexual act. So, in their opinion, women are selling their bodies for sex work. And they have the right to sell their bodies.

They are saying all this.

They are saying. So, the word that came with it was sex worker. So, I was in the Supreme Court during this hearing. Justice Altamas Kabir was the judge sitting on the bench at that time. And he was going on, you know, going on and on and on. Sex worker is that and sex worker is this and sex work that.

Even after listening to it for a while, the irritation that comes to me from that word is in the apex court, highest court. You know, how can a judge use this word? I stood by his side. My lawyer was also on my side, Mr. Aparna Bhatt. So, he told me, you tell me this. I said, if I tell you, you will be in contempt. I said, I don't care for contempt. I went into the well of the court right before the judge. It was a two bench judge. I think Mr. Kasbir was right there. I started shouting. How dare you use the word thing? Do you know what is the history of this?

Where did it come from? Is there any legal sanctity to this word? How did you use this word? You used this word like this. Actually, what is the case what? A girl was murdered. And the case started saying, how can women exit? That's the case. Now you are doing something else, using the word sex worker,

are you going to give them a license? What are you saying? After that, I think I gave a one and a half minute speech.

Okay.

Full blown. After that, I realized that I was in the Supreme Court. And everyone was looking at me like this, they were shocked like a judge. I was shocked too. If I get shocked, I can't hear. I become completely deaf.

Next, he was in full tension. I told him. After that, with this silence, my heart stopped. Then that man started shouting. Judge, his lordship started shouting,

this is not a court, you can't come and shout here and all. I couldn't hear anything. And I'm like looking at him, lip reading, what are you saying? And then there's this gentleman sitting, I think some Anand Grover, a lawyer.

He looked at me and said,

I don't understand what I am seeing.

I have gone through very embarrassing situations with my ear. And then of course he repeated, this is what he has said. You want to continue? I said, yeah, I want to continue. You know,

I said one more, two, three more lines. And then he said, no, no, our intention is not to use the term in that way or something like that. But that case is still going on. So in completely most unexpected places, I can go 100% deaf. Otherwise I can hear.

The way you are taking the tags, I mean, I asked this question on purpose, the way you explained in the book also. I am changing the perspective. I read a chapter, I don't want to talk about the chapter, but in that chapter you were mentioning about, after reading that I got a question, how tough can these kids, from brothel house to the sex trafficking, human trafficking

kids, how tough can they be?

Their situation, how to deal with the brothel people.

I don't want to talk about it.

So you need to understand what is sex industry, what is flesh trade industry, what is prostitution. A human being is selling sexual services. Here, money is for sexual service. How young will be the age, there will be such a demand for sexual service. Again, like we talked earlier, sexual service is not a definition. Okay. The person who buys it thinks that I am paying 500 rupees, 5000 rupees or 5 lakh rupees.

This body is mine. For an hour, half an hour or a night, this body is mine. I do what I want. Okay. And in whatever way I want. This is that person's thinking.

There is another person, another set of people.

I worked so hard to get this person, I took so many stories from that village and put them here.

Why? To earn.

So, if I do it with one person, where will I get the income? So, I have to do it with 10 people.

I have to do it with 10-15 people. How many people will she do it with? That much is good for me. Because see, profit is about profit only, right? Now Indigo did such a big drama. Why? To grow her business.

So, this trafficker is also a business minded person. To grow my business, I will do maximum business minded person. I will do my best to grow my business with this person. On the other hand, there is this person. I have to take this and that.

I don't know how to take it. This person is coming from a society where you and I are coming from. This society has many types of narratives. you and I are coming from a society. Okay. What is this society? There are many types of narratives in this society. Okay. One big narrative is,

your honor in your own body.

Hmm.

Okay. If something happens to your body, you lose your honor. Your family loses its honor. Your entire family loses its honor. Day one,

you lose your honor in Act 1.

Day 1, 2nd time, 3rd time, 4th time, 5th time, 6th time, 10th time. End of the day, what is her situation? What is her opinion about herself? What is her narrative of her own self? I am not able to come out. If I go, no one will accept me. I have to stay in this house.

How should I stay? To stay, with the same intellect, to make such requests for 15-20 times, it's difficult to fulfill such desires. So, you have to drink to live. You have to take drugs. There is nothing else, either Iodex or Benadryl or Benadryl.

Kerosene or Kerosene, whatever you get, which can keep your body, your mind intoxicated. That is a survival mechanism. There is still indoctrination going on daily. Police will come, raid, catch you. What should you say at that time?

What dialogues should you say? How should you save me? At the same time, they will give you another version. You have to tell me your dialogues, how you should save me. Okay? At the same time, they will give another version. If you don't take those NGOs, what will happen to you there? This will be this, that will be this, it will be like that.

If you haven't come back to me in so many days, what is there in my hands about you, it will reach here and there. This kind of a person is coming out of a whole environment. So obviously, The criminal justice system, even today does not understand this bloody reality. It's not possible for a person to come to the world on their own. For that, an environment should be created. We should give counselling, training, life skills, livelihood skills, education, trauma care, health care, de-addiction. How can all this be completed overnight, boss? To do all this, there should be a proper system.

Okay. A criminal justice system will not understand this even now. And that's my greatest frustration. We have been doing this for 30-35 years.

In these 30 years, we have given a sensitization to so many judges. Even then, the mindset doesn't change. Even then, the mindset does not change. Even now, if you see, more than 50% of the girls are rescued. Within 4-5 days, they are handed over.

A rape victim, in your country, in your society, if a rape happens, such a small look. But the girl who was arrested for rape, within 24 hours, 10 people are standing in the court, custody, my daughter, my sister, my sister, my wife, my this and that, you still don't have any doubt, who are they?

And that is a very sad thing. I don't know, you know, how to explain to anyone, what is happening here? Or else, do they all think that these girls are doing this work voluntarily? That is also a big question mark.

If you look at the side of the adults, there are kids like them, right? They also grow up in a tough environment, so when you educate them or when you try to motivate them and all, what kind of thought process do you give to the kids?

We have to think in two ways, Vamsi. Because we don't have red light areas like we used to have in the past. When we had red light areas, it was a more complicated situation. In the country, the mother is there, the baby is under the mother's bed. In that world, a baby or a son, in a very young age, sees a lot of adult things. I remember, I came to Mebuki first in Mehendi, here in Hyderabad.

High Court opposite to the Red Light area. Yes, exactly opposite to the High Court. Exactly opposite to the High Court. So, at that time, you know, the situation I saw was that boys were mostly peddling these family packets, girls were also there, somewhere in the midst of it,

but boys were mostly things that support the crime. They bring things, peddle them, and sometimes they use boys to take money from customers. Most often, girls stay here and there till a certain age and then coming down the same way. This is the situation in red light areas. Red light areas have been decreasing in recent years. Now, it is a very decentralized space.

It does not happen at home. This person goes to a hotel, a hotel, a resort or an apartment. So, they keep their children away. So, the children don't see what the mother is actually doing. So, the effect on these children here is a little different. In the previous generation, the effect of those kids was horrible.

How did you manage? It was horrible.

You wrote a few, right?

Yes, it took me a long time to understand that. Because, I remember one case, I wrote it in my book. You know, she was very intelligent. She was so intelligent that there was a bus station in front of the railway station in Secunderabad. So, the discussion

was held there. That was the hot spot. So, women used to solicit there. This girl was also there. So, whenever

I went to see this girl, all the buses she is in, I know the numbers, I know the board, I know what goes where, I found a very very intelligent and high IQ person. So, if you read that story, you will know that I somehow got the child out of there. It was a big drama to remove it, to file a kidnapping case against me, to try to get it done. Oh, full drama. Anyway, I put the child in a residential school. I thought, at that time I didn't have a home.

We didn't have a place to stay at that time.

I didn't have anything. But I thought, she is so intelligent. We took her out of the street. Immediately, she can be put in a normal place.

Right.

At that time, she had that much intelligence. Now, she has a little clarity. There should be a bridging space in between, to create a coping mechanism, for this person to have a space to resolve even the exposed unpleasant realities. This understanding came now. It didn't exist then.

So, what did we think? We removed it and put it back. We put it back and the child really did well. It was in the hostel, in the boarding school. In the boarding school, Christian missionary boarding school.

Visitors came. Visitors came and the visitors came and the children said that they wanted to recite a poem and if they recited a poem, they would give them chocolate or something. So anyway, my daughter did not get chocolate. That is what happened there. So the daughter goes to the visitor, stands there, she puts the frog on me and says, Uncle, will you give me a chocolate? Oh, that warden and all of them are scandalized.

What kind of behavior is this? You know, putting the frog on me and saying, will you give me a chocolate? It took us for a little while to understand. The girl has only saw this in life. Okay. She and her mother will be under the bed.

Okay. Every time the mother lifts her saree, Okay. You will give money to anyone. That is the message that a three-year-old girl learned. That if you put your clothes on top, you will get money.

She doesn't know if it is right or wrong. We adults do modelling, right? That was one of my first understanding. Of how much this adult environment, on the minds of these kids. You know, first first when I started school

I was a first teacher. I remember sitting like this, a boy is talking to another girl. Easily, I mean we were sitting here, this shouldn't be said, this sentence is wrong, I'll give you 100 rupees. Can I have oral sex with you? That's in colloquial Hindi, Urdu. What is he saying? Where did he learn this? That is when we understood that you know, these kids, see every step in my life, every milestone, every signage. I learned this by making mistakes and failures.

First, I don't know everything. I fell many times. And this is the first thing that I fell for. We didn't understand how these kids' mental state should be. What did they see? What impact did the items they saw have on their mind?

We need to solve that a little bit and create an enabling environment for them to heal. We can give them space to heal in normal schools. Between normal and abnormal, we need a bridge. It took me a long time to understand this. And even after understanding it, I took a lot of time to figure out how this bridge should look,

how it should be shaped, what to do with it, how to do it. I took a lot of time to figure this out.

Because it's not an existing ecosystem, right? When you're building an ecosystem,

Yes, because there's nothing to learn first. No one has done this before me. There there is nothing to learn first. No one has done such things before me. There is no model to choose. So maybe everybody whom we call as pioneers, means the first person who took the first road, that person should take that risk.

First, where will we fall, where will be the pitfall, where is that thing, I don't know. Okay, you have to go, you have to fall, you have to get up and you have to continue walking. You know, because if you fall and stay there, the story stops. It won't come this far. So this book is the story of all the falls.

But it is also the story of how many times I got up. You know.

Of course, ma'am. Yeah. And another interesting phase, I found it very good, very overwhelming. I saw it in your video too. The phase when you got the information that Padma Sri has come. The incident before that, when you got to know about it.

I found it very a very good thing. If you can talk about that, how was that phase?

I think, we will tell you a full circle, right? Life has come a full circle, that kind of a question. Because, my PA called me and said, Madam, Ministry of Home Affairs, I need to talk to you about this.

Where are you now?

I am in Kerala. So, the Ministry of Home Affairs was trying to contact me. They asked me if I could give them my number. I was like, what is this? Why is everyone calling me? 2-3 months before that,

another incident happened. I went to a meeting in Delhi. In that meeting, I was speaking very loudly. The sentence I said was not correct. Maybe, in the future, maybe.

Okay. Even then, a person from the Ministry of Home Affairs started shouting at me in front of everyone. Practically, I was called an anti-national 2-3 months before. So, when I called the Ministry of Home Affairs, they said, Oh, what else are you calling to scold? I took the call when he called me.

And the first thing when he said, Madam, Padma Shri has come. Are you okay? I didn't understand. I became like, what? I thought it was a scam. You know, are you taking me for a ride? So I repeated.

I said, what did you say? Repeat it again. I said, you got Padma Shri. So first question came to my mind, who the hell has nominated me? Because I didn't put an application. So it took me a long time to sink in.

I couldn't sink in, to be honest. That day, I called my dad and told him. I was like, what? Padmasri? He couldn't understand. He is a government servant. But the most amazing experience I had was it happened in Kerala. When I was in Kerala. My parents, my relatives, many people who liked me Like Chasing Numandy now Dwara Navala into humiliation kiguri padinavalu. My father was called all kinds of names. Freedom itches aramiki. She is

characterless. She's become like that. I don't know what all he had heard. My siblings, I don't know what all they had heard about me in their friends circle. It is... It was like you know... In a life... A strange thing happened in my life. My country finally acknowledged me in front of everyone.

My village is a small village. It is called Tamarapadam. It is a small remote village. There is no proper road to go there. I had to walk 1.5 km to my house after stopping the bus. correct bus stop in she my lucky not cheap Oli one and a half kilometer Aruju Sainthram all the media was there I cannot forget my father's face I

cannot forget the pride he had our Oju and, you are Sunita Krishnan's father. I am Raju Krishnan, you know. I am her father. I will never forget that. Next day, in our village, in our temple, the poojas will be done from morning. I take those poojas very seriously.

I don't come out of the temple. When I come out of the temple, the scene that I see is my father is surrounded by MLA, MPs, corporators, everyone in the palacer own political character, are giving their blessings to my dad.

You know, Mr. Sunita Krishnan's father, I don't know, for all the pain I caused them, for all the pain I gave them, for that one moment, I said, now it's cleared. And I will never forget, the children in all the schools nearby, hundreds of them, saying that Padma Shri has come to our village,

scouts and guides, all of them came and saluted me all these relatives saw me as a small person suddenly we had a person who was not there, came here for my father and for my parents who sacrificed so much for me that was the best tribute I could give

that news came to us while we were there I think for me that's the greatest gift I could give my parents and my greatest happiness that my father saw it before

he left this world. And some articles are that by the time you realize that your daughter is missing from your home, next 72 hours or 48 hours are very much important. There is a law in each source. After, you'll have to leave your hopes, as some articles say. Or if you are not caught within a few days, it will be difficult. According to the situation you are seeing today,

in trafficking, what is the golden hour or immediate time or what should be the process if someone identifies or if someone is missing?

See, the golden hour is always the least amount of hours. The more you delay a person, the more the risk of an exploiter taking over the space is high.

Some people think that if they go to the police station, they will know that the girl is missing if they go to the police station.

No matter how long you sit like that, you and your person are pushing that person into the same dangerous situation. Because, there is a sin now. If you want to catch the person within the city's jurisdiction and boundaries, it should be over within the next one hour. Today, there are schemes like Mahalaxmi, but there are no tickets. If you sit in an interstate bus, it will cross the border in no time.

So, the faster you do it, the easier it is to recover. The later you fast, the more chances you have to get stuck in dangerous situations. Therefore, I would say the golden hour is the next one hour. You know, the faster you do it, the better it is. Don't push that person in a situation where your own self is in danger, thinking about their reputation, reputation, etc. Is what I would say. If your daughter is missing, it is important that you put on the highest red flag as quickly as possible.

Even if you run away from the protective safety net. There are people in the family, relatives, community, there is a safety net. If you are afraid to do something, if you do something, people will think in advance,

because there are people who ask and people who tell. The more you run away, the more the safety net is lost. That is why any missing case should be taken both by the parents and the police. The highest priority. Many times, even the police don't take it as a priority. They say, go and search.

Relatives are somewhere. Or else, did she run away with someone? Who is the boy? Find out. It's happening like that. It's not common, it's a fact. 75% of the cases are like this.

But, even if you don't take it out of love, are you really taking it out to are going to exploit something else. We don't know this motive. If you listen to the stories of the girls who lost their mother, more than 30-35% of the girls have been lured in the name of love.

They have given their word to marry.

So, your daughter is not the one. Especially minors. Minor cases are increasing a lot now.

It is very important, not only for the girl, for the boy also to understand. If you fall in love and become blind and take such foolish decisions, you will take decisions to ruin your life. Because if you hold on to it, it is a POXO case. If you are a minor, you go to juvenile home. If you are a major, if you are 19-20 years old, you go to jail. Your whole life is ruined.

Okay. So, what should you do at what time? Bringing such laws, bringing such systems as a law, why? Why do you want to come back to school? Why do you want to come back legally? Till this age, you have put your development, your career growth, your education,

your overall mental development. At this time, you are distracted in the name of love, you are distracted in such things. There can be only true love. Future.

You get pregnant, then you don't have to come back to education. There, you are putting a barrier to your life. So, what is good for you? You have to understand. Maybe, the law doesn't say that, but that's the intention. So, on one hand, there is a direct connection between missing cases and trafficking, and therefore there is a golden hour that has to be followed.

But there is a connection between a missing case and a girl's overall development. You run away at a young age and ask the girl what she is doing, is she willing to ruin her life? What is the boy doing? Okay? A lifelong black mark can come to his life by a criminal case.

Right.

You know?

That is for your own protection. Don't do it. Stop at 18? Study. Whatever is standing on your feet, after you reach the age of maturity, you can take the responsibility of another person. After you get that confidence, take that step.

I'll end this podcast with last two questions, ma'am. One question is, I don't wish that I should be in need of help. I'm sorry to say this, but if someone is in need of help from Prajwala Foundation, how should they reach you?

Best way is through our website. immediately contact, we have a system to get alerts, so they can immediately send. If they send a message from there, we immediately get the information. But it is better than contacting Prajwalana. 100, 181, if they come to us, we can give support from there. But we are more cautious because the world has taught us this. People who misuse us and trap us have given us information.

So we are cautious on that. But yes, if you are in trouble, there is a good system in the country today. 30 years back, there was no such system. There is a number called 100. At any time, at any minute, if you call, if it does not work, there is 181. If it is a small child, use 1098. There are toll free numbers like this. What I hope is that there should not be an organization like Prajvala.

We should close shop one day. I don't want us to be here all the time. This problem will end someday. And someday, people like us will get full rest. I am waiting for that day.

I end up the podcast with an advice question. I don't give advice, but I give advice to the viewers. But here I wanted to ask a specific advice. I have read in the book.

First of all, read this book. I will tell everyone. My story, I told a little bit now. But that book has at least 45% I will place the link in the description.

Yeah. This is the book. I have read in this book. So, you are doing book marketing. I am doing it. leave it to me. So when we talk about a concept called man against demand.

Man against demand.

Man against demand, yeah. I wanted to ask you about that. In that context, there are people who have done the activity by paying for sex, or there are people who have thought of doing it,

and there are people who have got used to it. If you need to advise straight, what would be your advice? You know, recently a study was done in Europe. One of the findings in that is, 40% of people who watch such content, they are emotionally compelled to go out and seek. We say it for fun, we are just watching what is happening.

Okay. But what you are seeing in this… So it for fun. We just watch what happens. But what you are seeing in this, you are generating the demand for this. If you generate such a demand, somewhere, in some area, a baby is born. To fulfill your demand.

So, reflect on everything you do. Maybe fun for you. It can be just a thrill for you. It can be instant pleasure. But in that instant pleasure, a person's life is destroyed. So, you know, think before you do things. I always say, women's safety is not about telling the girls how to use a pepper spray.

If a girl is raped, everyone will say, learn Taekwondo, learn this, learn that, learn Karate, use pepper spray, you know. And now, today, tomorrow, all kinds of startups are also coming up. If you press that sensor here, all together what are we teaching our girls? What are we telling our girls? Be always fearful. You never know when your Taekwondo will be useful.

You never know when you will be able to give karate shots. Instead of investing on the girls, invest on your bloody boys. They will think of ways to changes their perspective and their eyes. A human being is not a sexual object. To use and stock. If that way of thinking changes, automatically our movies will change.

If your way of thinking changes, your content changes, your world vision changes, your world itself changes. Because you see a person as a person. Not as an object that you can control, take over, possess. If you don't have it, you can lose your asset on it. If you don't have it, I will lose my love for her. If I don't do it, I will rape her. In any way, I have to possess you. If you want a safer world, if you want a world which is safe for all, then invest on your boys change the mindset of your boys your sons your

husbands the men around you and world will be a better place definitely thank husbands the men around you and world will be a better place definitely thank

you very much mom thank you thanks for the time thank you