Trump & Pam Bondi get BAD NEWS amid Epstein photo release

I'm joined now by the co-host of Pod Save America, Tommy Vitor. Tommy, thanks for joining.

Brian, great to see you.

Happy holidays. Happy holidays. So another big Epstein tranche release from the Epstein estate. Now we have seen this drip, drip, drip. To what extent do you think that this puts pressure on Pam Bondi? We're three weeks into this law having been passed. unanimous in the Senate, signed into law begrudgingly, I'm sure, by Trump, and yet still nothing released

by Pam Bondi, who, by the way, had those files on her desk all the way back in February ready to be released. And so how much pressure do you think this puts on someone like her to get this thing out?

Yeah, so the House Oversight Committee Democrats released 19 images today. They say they've received 95,000 from Jeffrey Epstein to state. So I think what they're creating or what they're signaling to the Trump administration is we can create for you the worst of both worlds, where we are both releasing

these documents, but you are refusing to put out what you have, which makes you look like you're staging a cover up while the truth is slowly getting out there. So I do think this puts pressure on Trump. At some point, someone in this political orbit is going to say, sir, no matter what is in these documents, no matter how bad it must be, ultimately, it's probably not worse than everyone assuming the worst, which is where we're at now.

Well, that raises the question. I mean, Trump has to know that, like he's got political instincts as much as as much as nobody wants to admit it. Like he's got political instincts. It's gotten him to the point that he's at today. He won three presidential elections. Right, right. You have been adamant about that point. And so he recognizes that by virtue of

suppressing the files that the DOJ already has, that it's allowing everybody to assume the worst. And you and I have spoken in the past about how this is the second worst thing that could possibly happen because the first worst thing is that what's actually in the files is worse. And so do you presume that recognizing the narrative he's creating,

that what's in the files is actually worse than just living in this hellish purgatory where everybody just assumes the worst anyway?

Yeah, look, I mean, we don't know what he did, right?

He could have

done some awful things, but do I think that there's, you know, specific documentation of Donald Trump with an underage woman sitting in the Epstein files? No, because I think he would have been prosecuted for that if like DOJ or the FBI was sitting on, you know, sort of that kind of evidence, right? So I think what's happening now is the old cliche is the cover up is worse than the crime. And I think the cover up right now is letting all of us think the worst that he you know that he was at these parties that he was on Epstein's Island that he flew on the plane

that he did wildly inappropriate things with young women. And so I think you're right. Donald Trump is smart. He has good PR and marketing instincts. He did win two elections like he has to know this is doing real damage. And for once it's doing damage within the MAGA base. It's not just Democrats that are upset.

I'm going to challenge one thing that you said, which is this idea that if he had done something, he would have been prosecuted. And I know that we're getting into a little bit of a conspiratorial rabbit hole, but, you know, humor me on this. Rabbit away. If, I mean, there were a lot of people that were involved, none of whom have been prosecuted.

Like that's the whole point of this whole search is that there are, you know, presumably hundreds of Epstein's accomplices and we haven't seen accountability for any of those people. And so in the same way that Trump hasn't been prosecuted, none of these other people have been prosecuted.

Look, that's fair. I mean, I guess what I'm getting at is like the most lurid sort of version of what is assumed to be in these files is like video cameras from bedrooms on Epstein Island or at his house in New York that were filming individuals kind of in the various acts, right? Like we haven't seen that. I think if that evidence existed of, let's say, Bill Clinton or Alan Dershowitz, I think those people would have been prosecuted by now. I don't think there's been an email that's like,

Donald Trump did X on Y date with this underage individual. So I'm talking about things that are like that, clear cut.

Like such a blatant smoking gun that it would just be like, ah, we've got the document that he's trying to suppress.

Now certainly there's also allegations that Jeffrey Epstein was primarily helping people like money launder and avoid taxes and doing all sorts of financial crimes so like there could be evidence of Activities like that in these files that I would agree Haven't been followed up on having been prosecuted because the focus has been on other stuff. Do you presume that?

At the end of this whole process So four weeks from the time that the that the law, which I believe was, whatever, at the end of November. Do you think that Panbandi does go ahead and actually release these files?

I just, unfortunately, I will have no confidence ever that they've released everything. Yeah. I think there's an ongoing effort to probably, remember there was a story about the FBI spending hundreds of hours redacting Trump's name and stuff?

Shit like that really worries me. There was also there's also the fact that Pam Bondi has kind of couched her her vow to release these files in this idea that that she's going to release whatever she can release. Pending, you know, barring any ongoing investigation. And of course, at the 11th hour, Trump had posted that that he's certain that Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, JPMorgan Chase, Reid Hoffman were all involved in this. And so Pam Bondambondi should definitely totally open up some investigation. It took four hours for Pambondi to then get onto Twitter

and say, we're hereby opening investigation into these Democrats. And so, if that gives her some pretext to be able to say, hey, we're looking into-

There's an ongoing investigation.

There's an ongoing investigation and we can't release this. There's an ongoing investigation and we can't release this. Until we can't release all the files, then now she has the justification to be able to

do that.

Yeah, look, Pam Bondi is an idiot. Kash Patel is an idiot. They were only put in their jobs because they will do Trump's bidding. And I have absolute confidence that that is what's happening right now. can and release what they think is politically damaging to others and not Donald Trump. And it'll just be on investigative journalists and Congress and, you know, good people who are still working at the FBI and DOJ to make sure the rest gets out there.

You know, on on the point of the people that Trump has surrounded himself with, the people who built their brands on releasing these very files, there was a point just a few days ago where Dan Bongino said this.

You know, I don't know if you remember this. This is before you became the deputy FBI director. You put a post on X right after this happened, and you said there's a massive cover-up because the person that planted those pipe bombs, they don't want you to know who it is because it's either a connected anti-Trump insider

or an inside job. You said that, you know, long

before you even thought of as deputy FBI director. Yeah, that's why I said to you this investigation's just begun. We are pretty comfortable. We have our guy. I think is, again, legal process starts to surface and information facts start to come out. The public's going to be very comfortable with the investigation that was conducted under Director Patel and his leadership. He's been great on this. But I don't want to listen. I was paid in the past, Sean, for my opinions. That's clear. And one day I'll be back in that space. But that's not what I'm

paid for now. I'm paid to be your deputy director and we base investigations on facts.

So that's Bongino.

Incredible clip.

Basically, basically suggesting that, that when he was but a mere podcaster, he was free to lie because that was obviously the more lucrative path. But now that he's in a job where you have to have some adherence to facts, things are different now.

And so first and foremost, your reaction to that. I was just like, oh my God, he just gave up the whole game.

Yeah. You know, he's like, look, I used to get paid to lie, I used to get paid to incite people and get everyone spun up about this stuff. Now I'm just focused on the facts. Well, you know what, Dan,

you probably should have focused a little more on the facts right now wouldn't quite be so hard. It's so difficult, yeah. Because everyone who at least will listen to your show thinks that you and Kash Patel are covering this shit up, man. You know, I mean like you did real damage and like harmed victims, harmed real investigations. It was an unbelievable admission in a softball interview, by the way.

I think one of the most striking points of that was when he says, or he implies that he's gonna go back to that world at some point after. I'm so curious what your thoughts are on this idea that Dan Bongino will have retained enough credibility after building his brand, again, on this issue of releasing these Epstein files, to then be the deputy FBI director in charge

of the biggest coverup of a pedophile ring in history. Like, how do you go back to that job and have any audience that isn't there expressly because they just want to be lied to?

I mean, he's losing that far right group of people that were his biggest supporters. And it's happening on the Epstein files. It's also happening on the assassination of Charlie Kirk, because there's a lot of people in right wing circles that don't believe the FBI story. They don't trust what's been put out. They don't believe that the shooter. They don't trust what's been put out. They don't believe that the shooter

is in US captivity at the moment. So yeah, the idea that Cash Patel and Dan Bongino can just hit the government ejector seat sometime soon and go back to some lucrative career, selling brain supplements like Joe Rogan or whatever, like Doomsday Prepper packs,

and then do their podcast again. I good luck with that guys

I am curious and and I think that's a good segue into what's happening on the right and and admittedly I'm not as tuned into this because Because I I'm I'm a masochist but not a masochist. Oh, yeah, but you Tommy. I love this shit You are a masochist and so I just want I just want you to give a lay of the land of what's happening with the whole Erica Kirk Candace Owens TP USA situation that's unfolding right now. That's really kind of enveloped the right and and created sparked off a civil war that that

Unlike anything I've seen recently on the right it is it is remarkable what's happening? I mean there is there are like there's a massive civil war happening and kind of the mad at mega media, right? And there are skirmishes breaking out everywhere between kind of like individual influencers. So for those who don't know, Candace Owens, she worked at TPUSA under Charlie Kirk,

then she went to the Daily Wire for a few years. She was basically pushed out over charges of anti-Semitism, which she has gone on in her independent career to seem to back up were reasonable. Candace does not believe the official story about Charlie Kirk's murder. She has suggested that the Israeli government was behind it.

More recently, she suggested that the French Foreign Legion was behind the assassination. She's also suggested that the French Foreign Legion and some Israelis, because there's always got to be a Jew in there, is trying to assassinate her as well.

And- Probably as retribution for suggesting that Brigitte Macron is a man.

She has also done like hundreds of hours of content alleging that the first lady of France is actually a man. In fact, not just any man. She's alleging that Brigitte Macron is her own brother. This like 80 year old dude who is still alive, who still lives in France, who has been photographed with Brigitte like

recently at the presidential inauguration. Like everything about this is just bonkers. And so the Macrons are suing her for libel. We'll see what happens for defamation. I mean, both I guess. So we'll see what happens with that. But it is sparked off this civil war where like, Candace is fighting with other you know, online podcasters like Tim Pool. She's fighting with TPUSA. Like we're talking on a Friday, I think on Monday, TPUSA is going to hold this like live stream event where they're going to go through all of Candace's allegations and fact check them one by one.

And they asked Candace if she wanted to join, but she said she can't because it's her husband's birthday like it's this shit is crazy man I can't overstate how wild it is over there and so you know with with all of this stuff happening beefs like this by the way we need to manufacture a beef I don't know

where you want to start I don't know if you've been on you've been on Twitter or threads or blue sky lately trust me the left the left has a 10 year long ongoing beef.

Okay, okay. I'll piggyback on that.

I don't think we have to worry about Dems being in disarray. Okay, right. Fair enough. To what extent do you think that this is going to have some lasting impact on the coalition? Look, a coalition that was largely held together by Trump. Trump is a lame duck president right now. And and with him leaving, I mean, who knows if if J.D. Vance is going to have the juice to hold hold these people together.

There is no cult like figure on on the right right now that that kind of kept everybody in line in the same way that Trump did. And so to what extent do you think that this is the beginning, the beginning of us seeing how the edges are fraying and threads are being pulled, that's ultimately going to that's ultimately going to show what happens in a

post Trump world.

Yeah. So I think there's two pieces of it. One is like Charlie Kirk filled a lot of space in the conservative media and organizing world. And when he was killed, there's a lot of people trying to jockey and get that position. But I think more broadly and far more importantly is what you just said which is they know Trump's a lame duck, his polling's in the tank, everyone is kind of trying to position to see where the magnet world goes next and

they want to like get in front of that you know train and call it a parade and say I'm leading it right and so you're seeing that from Ben Shapiro is all of a sudden on CNN and doing more mainstream media stuff. This literal neo-Nazi, Nick Fuentes, is like on Piers Morgan. And he's talking to Tucker Carlson. Like there's all these voices emerging and trying to push the

party in different directions. Some of them are for or against J.D. Vance, for example, like you said. And I'm with you, man. I don't think J.D. Vance has much juice at all in this world, but I I guess we'll see. But yeah, it is fascinating to watch. And I don't see an end to it in sight.

Well, I think the important point is that as these people continue to jockey for position, they know how the media environment works. They know that they have to say more outlandish stuff. And frankly, it's working for a lot of them. I mean, the growth that we've seen

from the Nick Fuenteses of the world, and Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro, like they all know what they're doing. They all know how to get attention in this media environment. They all know what they have to do to be able to fill this vacuum that was left by Charlie Kirk that's gonna be left by Donald Trump as the GOP continues to evolve and look for some thought leaders.

And as they grow, I think it's incumbent on folks who are watching content like this to make sure that we support, you know, progressive media. So one note for everybody watching is if you are not yet subscribed to Potsdie America's YouTube channel, I'm going to put the link right here on the screen again, help support build up independent progressive media so that when people come online, the first thing they don't see,

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