As thousands of Department of Justice lawyers have quit the DOJ, as many as five to ten thousand, I've heard different numbers, almost half of the DOJ lawyers seem to be out.And if you add support staff and everybody, I mean, there's so many people who quit.We've been talking about here on the Midas Touch Network what the DOJ was trying to do as it doesn't like have lawyers to handle its cases.And so many of its cases that you probably don't hear about are getting dismissed right now simply because the lawyers are missing deadlines because there's no lawyers there and they don't have people to show up in court.So like they'll have cases where they, you know, like kidnap people, throw them into these, you know, Trump regime concentration camps, you know, whether it's immigrants or whoever, you know, and then, you know, the people hire lawyers.And then they file motions and then the Trump regime doesn't oppose it.
They don't have lawyers to even oppose it, to even make arguments.And there's just so many cases that are understaffed or not staffed at all.Think about all of these criminal defendants who are, you know, there may be some real meritorious cases out there that are getting dismissed right now.And so we talked about the Trump regime's tactics, what they're doing with everybody quitting.They've also fired a lot of people to or force people out.But lots of people are quitting.
They've tried to reach into JAG and hire like military lawyers.who don't know the federal rules of criminal procedure.They know like JAG military law.They try to bring them in.They've tried to bring in people who are like lawyers in other departments and divisions.And that didn't work.
Remember, we talked about some of these lawyers.having like actual breakdowns, like in front of the judges when the judge is like, why aren't you filing what you need to file?And the lawyer's like, they're working, I don't know, they don't have the documents, I don't have staff, nobody's telling me what to do, I don't know what to do, I'm sorry, lock me up.Remember there was a lawyer who was like, throw me in jail right now, I can't do this anymore.So we know the latest tactic that the DOJ is doing.And by the way, you, we, the taxpayers are gonna be paying for this.
They want to offer $25 ,000 signing bonuses if you become a DOJ lawyer.Now, let's be very clear.Lots of people who become DOJ lawyers in the first place, We're not doing it because it was the most lucrative job and they're doing it for the money.In fact, it's often a pay cut for people.It's one of the most highly sought after jobs out of law school or even going back from the private sector into the DOJ.I mean, there are lawyers who literally take millions of dollars, millions of dollars a year in pay cuts to work at the DOJ because they're the best in their field.
and they want to be able to give back to public service, then they can either go back to private practice.Maybe it puts them on a path to becoming a judge.Or, you know, I'm a professor at a law school.It's a path for lots of law students.And they go, OK, do I want to work at a big law firm right out of law school, like the top students, and I can make 180 on the low end to maybe $250 ,000 a year?Or do I work at the DOJ, maybe just make six figures, maybe even slightly less, but you make maybe just that six figures, and I can learn and do trials and get all of this experience.
And then a few years later, I could either advance through the DOJ or go into the private sector, and I'll be so highly sought after because I've done trials and all of this work.And so they sacrifice to work for less money.So the very idea that they're offering $25 ,000 already shows you it already misses the mark.They have no clue in understanding the way DOJ recruitment works, who's attracted and why they're attracted to the DOJ for public service, not a $25 ,000.$25 ,000 recruitment check.So all this is going to do is attract lawyers who frankly, like if you're doing it for the 25 K to
work at the DOJ, you're, let's be clear, you're not at attracting the people whose mindset is working for the DOJ for the right reason.You're not going to attract the top talent.You're going to attract, I think, wrong talent, but don't take it from me.Let's talk to Harry Lippman, who was a top federal prosecutor.He worked at Maine Justice.Harry oversaw a you know, Harry, you could tell us how many lawyers at the DOJ you oversaw, whether it was when you were the number one guy person over in the federal prosecutor's office in the Western District of Pennsylvania, or when you were in Maine Justice.
But you oversaw, I don't think I'm exaggerating, at least hundreds of lawyers who were under your direct report.And you know the dynamic of why people work at the DOJ.So to me, this just reeks of desperation, and it just shows you that they're flailing.They're in crisis mode, Harry.
Not just desperation, but such a degeneration of what it means to be there.Just as you say, Ben, here's a quick personal story.I worked for a summer at a hoity -toity law firm based in San Francisco, and I had a kind of mentor there, a partner of many years.And she, at the end, gave me the offer and tried to recruit me. I didn't go.Many years later, I went to get an interview at the US Attorney's Office in San Francisco, and who walks in the door but her, and she says to me, This is the job I've always wanted.I know I talked to you when I was at this law firm.
Extremely typical path.There was this narrow path where you feel like you won the lottery for people coming right out of law school, the so -called honors division.But a very typical path is people who weresenior in law firms, very, very high up there.When Bob Mueller died, we learned his story.He went back to the law firm making five, six million.
However, he just wanted to go be an AUSA again.It's not simply, as you say, you have your hands on and you're doing real work, but the sense of public mission that everybody has lawyers go to school for and they find out again and again the real legal industry is not often like that so you have Absolutely, your pick of the litter.Every time I hired somebody, when a slot would come up in Pittsburgh, there would be resumes up to here.It was the job they wanted.And the fact that they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel and then induce the bottom of the barrel with $25 ,000 signing bonuses, as you say, if that's why they're going, the people are being attracted, it's a big problem.But it is so night and day for the job that was the most highest job satisfaction and most prestigious because mainly you got to do all your work yourself, got a lot of experience, but you got to do the right thing.
And now what's the flip side of that?At the Department of Justice, you had all these people who, you know, they eventually reached a point where they didn't want to leave, but maybe their kids were going to college and they had to or whatever.But you had all these senior people and a pipeline where people were very well trained.Now you're getting at the department, which has been, as you say, ravaged.We've heard between a quarter and a half.Think about that for any kind of big you know, concern in business or whatever, the place is a mess.
but it understates it because they're disproportionately lost.The most important people who were there to do the right thing and just can't hack it anymore or else we're sort of forced out.So you have people there coming on who don't know what they're doing, and who does that hurt?It hurts the public.Typically, it would be a very kind of, might be there a year or two, finally get to second chair a trial or whatever.These people are being kicked in the rear and say, go in there and do your best.
Oh, but don't say this or that.And if they ask that, they are being put in impossible positions for starters, but they just don't have the chops or the training So the fact that they're dragooning people with $25 ,000 bonuses is a debacle on a couple levels.But in terms of what it means for what was clearly, once upon a time, the most sought after job for young lawyers, and not just young, medium, senior lawyers in all of the United States, tells you how very, very, you know, off the precipice the whole place has become.
You know, Harry, when you were a leader at the DOJ, when you led the Western District of Pennsylvania's office as the United States Attorney, or you held the top position at the DOJ, I mean, in your hiring conversations, you know, did Did you ever try to, you know, tell somebody, you know what, we offer a really good competitive pay package.Is that even a thing that you would, I mean, I just want our audience to know that, that it's the opposite.It is, you will gain the experience and not get paid what the market will otherwise pay you.That's the whole pitch.
And that's, and you're doing it for that reason.You are in thatposition the ultimate buyer you'll ask about them because you want to know but man I've definitely seen individual slots that's the other thing typically you would have very few vacancies because people love the job and they stay there come down to this Supreme Court clerk and this 10 -year litigator and really just the most qualified people in the whole industry.And no, it's not a matter of trying to persuade them, much less trying to persuade them by salary.You know that you have people who are, it goes without saying, and actually that's the final point I'd like to make here, Ben.It goes without saying, or it used to, that the people are so eager to do it, It's not that lawyers are the most, they're not all Florence Nightingales or whatever, but they go to law school and it makes such a difference to feel like you're doing the right thing and getting to do the right thing and standing up, not always prosecuting, sometimes deciding not to.
You're doing it for all the right reasons.You're making a tangible difference in your community.So hard for lawyers and big firms to come by that feeling.So no, they're really beating down the door And you know, we're talking about everybody's got a story the guy I there's a guy now work with he was the best the best a USA in the office in San Francisco took him, you know five years just to get an interview because because there are so few and far between and but now the other thing that's happened is that whole culture of Those people don't want to go because the place people know has been so it's no longer a place where you're told all the way up through the Attorney General.Exactly what Janet Reno told everybody there.We're here to do the right thing.
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Get started freeThat's what they're working to do.And Attorney General.general on both sides perennially told people that.So it's not that anymore.And indeed, on the contrary, you might get called in by some supervisor whose supervisor's supervisor said, you make sure that you do this thing because Donald Trump wants you to and you're corrupt.So, you know, it doesn't even, the people who want to do it for the right thing, it's not even there for them to do anymore, which is going to be a crisis, by the way, going forward.
So in every way, you know, the fact that they're literally having to write bonus checks means that the most, you know, I'm trying to think what it would be like, yeah, you got to pay people to go to football games or Broadway shows or whatever.People just clamor for these jobs and climb over each other and wait for years to get their shot.And now it's been devalued to the point where people with no experience are getting paid big bounties of a signing bonus.It's just mind -blowing.
and then subscribe, just search TalkingFeds.That's where I get my legal news from, Harry, when I'm not out there delivering news here.Subscribe to the Midas Touch YouTube channel as well if you're not, but make sure you subscribe to Harry's first.Also, he's got a sub stack and a podcast called TalkingFeds, subscribe there.But definitely, first and foremost, subscribe to Harry's YouTube channel.Thanks, Harry.
Hey, thank you, Ben.Thanks for the kind words.
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