“Trying To Put A TARGET On Me?!” Mehdi Hasan vs Jonathan Conricus On Israel-Gaza 'Genocide'

So these Palestinians who claim that it's going to continue even if they let go of the hostages and lay down their arms,

try us. Free the hostages and test us. Why don't you test us? Meshti, there's been a job opening. Israel finally got rid of Abu Obaida, a very prolific and well-to-do Hamas spokesperson.

You've really got to get better with your Hamas propaganda.

Mind your language, small man.

You're a racist, genocidal, war criminal. What, you're trying to put a target on me? Are you and Elon Levy trying to put a target on me?

Mesti and others aren't happy with the fact that Israel stubbornly, annoyingly is able to withstand the pressure campaigns by biased and corrupt UN organizations.

Gaslighting. I can't believe that what, 23 months into this, I'm still having to come on these shows and fact check this kind of nonsense propaganda. You're part of an Israeli military that the International Association of Genocide Scholars have said is a genocide.

You're part of a military, you're part of a military that's being investigated. Jonathan, we're on Piers Morgan, I get to speak. We're not in Gaza, you don't get to kill me as a journalist. Some of the world's leading genocide scholars passed a resolution this week declaring what many of Israel's critics have argued for months, that Israel's war in Gaza is genocidal.

With the exception of the US, Israel's allies are rushing to distance themselves from the ongoing escalation in the war. The UK's foreign secretary just expressed outrage at ongoing restrictions on aid after the US declaration that Gaza is enduring a quote, man-made famine. Benjamin Netanyahu now presides over a government, a war cabinet and a country, which is increasingly divided over the country's strategy and its impact on the fate of the remaining Israeli

hostages. This summer, he's embarked on a tour of conservative U.S. podcasts in an attempt to win back public support. Netanyahu continues to refuse invitations to appear on Uncensored again or indeed to appear on any other critical media. While Natali Bennett is a former Israeli prime minister, polls continue to indicate that

a Bennett-led coalition would defeat Netanyahu in an election and he joins me again now. Natali Bennett, welcome back to Uncensored. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you, Piers.

I've just been off for a couple of weeks and even in that time so much is going on with this war. But what appears to be very increasingly evident is that there's a real difference of opinion internally in Israel between Israeli citizens and the government, between the IDF and the government, between the families of the hostages and the government.

What is your sense here about what is going on internally in Israel?

Well, Israel is a very open society full of, and there's a huge debate of the sequence. Should we strive for a deal, bringing home the hostages, and then at a later date go on and destroy Hamas, while the government says that if you cut a deal now, you'll never be able to later on destroy Hamas. So there's a big strategic and tactical discussion. However, I would say that there's consensus in Israel as to the two main objectives, which

are to bring home the 48 hostages that are in the dungeons and tunnels of Hamas and to eradicate Hamas so they can't conduct another October 7th attack that they're saying that they want to do the moment they can.

This report must come from the leading association of genocide scholars in the world declaring that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. What is your response to that?

It's quite unbelievable. I mean, it's anything but that. Israel has no intent in that area. It's Hamas who has a genocidal approach towards the Jews and towards Israel. They explicitly say they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. And Israel says all we want to do is live. That's basically the competing claims. We have no desire to occupy Gaza, to live in Gaza.

We, if it were up to us, let the Gazans live their peaceful life. Problem is they don't want to do that and Hamas wants to attack us and kill us again and again. So that's the fundamental problem. The fact that there are some scholars who say the most crazy things doesn't make it true. I mean there were periods in the history of the world that the

leading scholars said that the world is flat. It didn't make the world flat. It just made them wrong and look stupid later on.

But you have a number of these scholars who are part of this body which is widely recognized as the most eminent when it comes to the study of genocide. Number of them are Holocaust experts and they've specified a number of things that they believe Israel is doing which constitute genocide and war crimes and crimes against humanity. Declaration notes the widespread attacks on both the personnel and facilities needed for survival,

including in health care, aid, and educational sectors. 50,000 children killed or injured by Israel, as highlighted by UN and organization UNICEF, which impacts the ability of Palestinians in Gaza to survive as a group and regenerate, and the support amongst Israeli leaders, vocal support, for the forced expulsion of all Palestinians

from Gaza alongside Israel's near total demolition of housing in the territory. You know, the problem, it seems to me, Naftali Bennett here, is that for all that I have absolutely consistently said Israel had a right to defend itself from, is that for all that I have absolutely consistently said Israel had a right to defend itself from Hamas, for all that it's indisputable that they themselves are genocidal, both in their intent and the actions that they have been committing on things like October the 7th, and on other occasions.

There's no doubt they want to destroy Israel. But the point of being the only democracy in the Middle East, as Israel has always proudly positioned itself, is that you don't descend to the level of your enemy. You don't then behave in a way that many people, including inside Israel, are now beginning to see,

or say they see, as genocidal itself. And surely, as a proud Israeli yourself who's led the country as prime minister, you must be getting concerned that so many historic and traditional allies of Israel, including the UK, France, Germany, and others

are all now lining up to be severely critical of the strategy of this current Israeli government?

Well, you've laid down quite a few claims and I want to respond to them. First of all, if Israel had any intent in genocide, man, we'd be the most incompetent genociders in history because with 63,000 people dead after two years and a ratio of two to one between civilians and militants, that's a very poor record.

If that were our intent, the cost of a kilogram of flour today wouldn't be $2.7 in Gaza, which is even cheaper than in Israel. So I can walk you through all of it. The fundamental point here is that Hamas turned the entire location of Gaza, the houses, the

hospitals, the schools, into the infrastructure of terror. There's almost no school in Gaza that doesn't have terror tunnels under it, that doesn't have rockets in it. So they made a very deliberate decision to turn all of Gaza into a war zone. And these are the results. Having said that, we do bend over backward to reduce as much as we can.

But war is a really bad thing. This whole thing could go away in a second if Hamas laid down its arms, released the hostages, it would go away. But on that point, so on that point... Let me finish this.

Hold on, let me finish this. Okay. I want to make a point. You know, if during the Shoah, the Holocaust, was there anything the Jews could do to stop Hitler? Could they say, you know, we do X and Y?

So there is no connection here. Here, it's them wanting to kill us. The moment they lay down their arms, the moment they let go the hostages, the war ends.

Yeah, but you see that's where I have an issue with this because I've heard this a lot now from people on the Israeli side who come on the show. And yet at the same time, you have people like Smodrich and Ben-Gavir in the government very openly talking about expelling all Palestinians from Gaza. And if they had their way from the West Bank, we have this leaked report in the Washington Post last week about a Gaza Riviera plan,

which would involve the temporary relocation of all of Gaza's 2 million population, which many people just view as blatant ethnic cleansing. So you've got all this going on at the same time, which makes people who are on the Palestinian side say, well, this isn't ending if the hostages get released. It's just the start of a new hell, the new hell being the end of the- I have an idea.

I have an idea. Well, being the expulsion of two million Palestinians. Why don't they try us?

OK, so these Palestinians who claim that it's going to continue even if they let go of the hostages and lay down their arms, try us.

Well, I agree with you. Lay down your arms.

Listen, I agree with you. Free the hostages. Yeah.

And test us. Why don't you test us?

I agree, but...

It's nonsense. No, no. You know it's nonsense. I agree that they should do that. of it's been destroyed. There is nowhere for these people to go back to their homes and live. Everyone knows that. And when you have senior members of the government,

of the cabinet, talking brazenly about kicking all the Palestinians out and taking it over, you must understand that people are looking for the day after the release of all hostages and the supposed end of the war and thinking, well, what happens to the Palestinian people at the end of this hostages and the supposed end of the war and thinking well what happens to the

Palestinian people at the end of this not Hamas that no one has any sympathy for, but what happens to them? Everybody knows how much I enjoy my tea and I'm very happy to say that today's show is sponsored by Peaks Pure Fermented Teas. These are not your average brews, They're sourced from 250 year old wild trees in the Himalayan foothills, which are untouched by modern farming. No pesticides, no fertilizers, just nature at its best.

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Yeah, let me lay out the vision for the future of Gaza. Once they release the hostages, lay down their arms, and then effectively we have a Gaza that is demilitarized. We don't wanna govern Gaza, all we want is security. We bring in the Egyptians, we bring in the Saudis, the Emirates,

we designate an area for rebuilding Gaza 2.0. If there's Gazans who wanna leave Gaza, we don't force them to stay in Gaza because mind you, the conditions are bad. I'm not suggesting it's a five-star hotel there. It's lousy in Gaza because they turned their homes

into terror bases. But then the rebuilding starts. As new buildings emerge, they can vacate them and then we have a demilitarized future for Gaza. I hope it would be good. Ultimately, it's their choice.

If they choose to go down the terror route like they did in the past 20 years, we can't deal with that and we'd have to fight again. But if they choose a peaceful route, they have a beautiful country and future there.

I just want to, at the end, mention an ongoing rumbling story about Jeffrey Epstein and whether he had connections or was employed by Mossad. You've spoken about this before. The rumor mill continues about this. You were a former Israeli prime minister. The Mossad reported directly to you.

How certain can you be that there was no link

at all with Jeffrey Epstein?

100%. Would you tell me anyway? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't sit here and tell you. Let me tell you something. I was Prime Minister. I wasn't Prime Minister during that period. It's not my responsibility. I didn't have to jump into this. But when I hear my country being smeared by these really anti-Semitic claims that supposedly the Mossad runs these sort of rings or whatever. So you know what I did?

I called up the Mossad chiefs from that period and I asked them point blank. I called up another prime minister and asked them point blank. The answer's no. I'll just tell you that since the mid 80s, we had a huge, the Pollard affair, which was a huge disaster for Israel,

where Israel did have one spy in the United States. Since then, it's Israel's policy to not have any espionage going on on American soil. So this is utter nonsense. We don't do that sort of thing. Certainly not in the United States.

Okay, that's totally been it. I appreciate you coming back on the sensor.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Piers.

Well, to debate the ongoing situation in Gaza and to react to that interview, in Gaza. I am joined by Mehdi Hassan, CEO of Zeteo, and Jonathan Conricus, former Lieutenant Colonel and IDF spokesman and senior fellow at the Foundation for Defence of Democracies. Mehdi, you were listening to the former Israeli Prime Minister, Naftali Bennett. What was your reaction? What was my reaction going to be other than to say more of the

same? Just so many lies, demonstrable lies? You challenged them on a few of them. You know, this idea that the war ends tomorrow if the hostages are released has been a nonsense proposition that a lot of Israeli military officials no longer believe in. The deal is on the table.

Hamas has now accepted Netanyahu's terms of a partial release deal, which they didn't want to accept. The Israelis said, that was our idea. And now Israel's own military chief of staff, Piers, is telling Netanyahu, take the deal. If you carry on with this war, it doesn't make the hostages any safe. That's what the Israeli military chief of staff is saying.

We know that, time and time again, there has been an option to end this war, have a complete hostage release, have a permanent cease-fire, not a temporary one. And yet the Israelis don't want to do it. Netanyahu has made it very clear, if they release the hostages, we're still going into Gaza City. We're still taking this over.

As you pointed out, Smotrich and many other ministers have said that it doesn't matter, the hostages are not the priority. Taking back Gaza, destroying Gaza, cleansing Gaza, to quote Bezalel Smotrich, the finance minister of Israel, that is the goal. So many other lies he mentioned. He talked about a 2-to-1 civilian-to-combatant ratio. Not true. Israel's own military intelligence database last month, it was leaked, showing that five

out of every six Palestinians they kill are civilians, one of the highest civilian death rates in the 1990s to find a death rate that high for civilians. It's one of the reasons why people are saying this is a genocide. As you said at the start of this segment, the International Association for Genocide Scholars passed a resolution on Monday saying that what Israel is doing in Gaza meets the legal definition of a genocide.

Only one in three Americans doesn't think it's a genocide. The IPC says it's a famine. Famine a genocide. The IPC says it's a famine. Famine, genocide. We need to stop the gaslighting. Jonathan Conricus, welcome back to Uncensored. You know, I don't disagree that Hamas

should release all the hostages. Of course they should. Shouldn't have taken them to start with. But I vehemently disagree with Naftali Bennett's framing that that simply ends everything. Because nobody seriously believes that is the case, for the reasons that Mehdi just articulated.

Yeah, hello, peers. Good to see you again or hear you. Well, whether you believe it or not is maybe important, but at the end of the day, I very much believe in that as well. And I think that it's very simple to go back to the situation on October the 6th and take stock of the situation then.

There were no Israeli soldiers fighting in Gaza, and there was no famine or any of the other falsehoods that Hamas propagandists are spreading, and the other lies that are being told every day in international media. The situation was that we were on our side of the border and Hamas and ordinary Palestinians were on their side of the border. What changed the situation was Hamas' attack on Israel.

That is why we find ourselves now fighting almost two years of war, almost on seven fronts, and it's going quite good on the other fronts. And I'm sure that many people in the Hamas Qatari camps like Mehdi and others aren't happy with the fact that Israel stubbornly, annoyingly is able to withstand international avalanche of pressure, the pressure campaigns by biased and corrupt UN organizations. This and that new institution or whatever scholars that are lending what's left of their credibility to

dubious reports done without due process with parts of their participants voting without having any possibility for people who think differently to raise their voice and then having that report as if it's, you know, gospel descend upon people and picked up and parroted in international media. And I'm sure that many people around the world are frustrated with the fact that we are still

here. We still intend to defeat our enemies. And yes, I agree, we are not doing it in the swiftest way. And I would have wanted us to have done it swifter and better. I would have wanted all of our hostages to be back. But to be very clear, if Hamas laid down their weapons and if

we get our hostages back and Hamas is dismantled from governing the Gaza Strip, I have absolutely no doubt that the war would end in that instance and there would be no Israeli

claims or ideas or escapades or anything else that you might quote fringe elements in Israeli society, it wouldn't happen. We would go back to minding our own business.

Hang on, hang on. Which would be to live and to prosper in our homeland. Hang on a second. Fringe members of society do not normally include the finance minister of the government. Gaslighting. You know, Smodrich is the current finance minister of the Israeli government.

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Well, he is the, he represents an electorate, democratically elected, but he represents an electorate which is on the extreme sides of Israeli politics. I perhaps shouldn't belittle and call them fringe, but it is an extreme part of Israeli society. But if you look at what other parts, most, the majority, if you look at what hundreds of thousands of Israelis, left, right, and center, are out demonstrating and saying is,

we want our hostages back. We want the war to end. And the moment we get our hostages back, we want the war to end, and the moment we get our hostages back, then the war ends. And another very important thing, which of course, Mehdi, disrepresented or represented very poorly, was that there is no deal for all of the hostages.

The current waiting is for Hamas to say, okay, we agree to hand over all of the hostages. Currently, what we have on the table is 10 live hostages and half of the murdered hostages. And that isn't good enough. We don't want Hamas to have any live hostages that they can have,

because that means that the war continues. That means that the suffering will continue. And that is not what we want.

Okay, Mehdi. I can't believe that what, 23 months into this, I'm still having to come on these shows and fact check this kind of nonsense propaganda from pro-Israel people. As you pointed out, they are on the record. Aret Struk, they are on...

Yeah, I can actually fact check. Let's give some facts. Bezalel Smotrich has said very clearly the hostages are not the priority. Aret Struk, the settlements minister. Can I speak without being interrupted? Jonathan, you had a chance for your propaganda. I will interrupt you for the next 20 minutes. Jonathan, he allows you to speak without interruption. Let Mehdi do the same. Fine. You can come back in and lie again in a moment. I'll give the facts to the viewers. The finance minister, Bizarro Smocic, said very clearly that the

hostages are not the priority. Ben GGavir is set a similar line. Orit Struth, the settlements minister, said recently, we have to go into every area, even if the hostages die, even if they're unsafe. We have to do it. They have made that very clear. Gallant, the former's homes and said,

you are sacrificing our children on the altar of eternal war. Those are the words of the hostages families, not the former IDF spokesman, Peers, who you've brought on to lie on behalf of the Israeli military. So many lies he told there in that statement

that he just gave this long rant. He doesn't want me to speak now, obviously, because the fact checks will hurt him. Again and again, they have said the hostages are not the priority. And this idea of fringe figures, as you said, Piers, Bizarlo Smotrich is the finance minister. He said in May of this year, we are disassembling Gaza.

We are turning it into piles of rubble. We are destroying the Gaza Strip. We are there to conquer, cleanse, and remain. Those are the words of Smotrich. By the way, on the same day, Piers, Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, put out a tweet saying, "'Bizarrely, you have spoken the truth. You show leadership.'" So this is the entire government.

It's not just the entire government. It's the country. A majority of Israelis say they want Palestinians expelled from the Gaza Strip, according to every poll. This is not society. And for Jonathan to say, I'm in the Hamas camp. Come on, Jonathan, get some new lines. I'm not in the Hamas camp.

I've never defended Hamas on the show once. Piers knows that. Although you come on the show to defend an Israeli military you were part of and spokesman for. You were part of an Israeli military that's being investigated at the ICJ for genocide.

You're part of an Israeli military and a proud International Association of Genocide Scholars have said is a genocide. You're part of a military. You're part of a military that's being investigated by international courts. You're part of a

military.

Well, I think, okay. Hang on, hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Let me jump in. No, no, hold on. I'm finishing my a talking head in a... Jonathan, let him finish and I'll come to you. You're part of a military that has been investigated for sexual violence and rape against Palestinians. Did that happen on your watch? Did you sign off on what the UN says is sexual and gender-based violence? That is right.

That is the power of the military. A military that bombed a hospital last week, Jonathan. Your military bombed a hospital. Let me ask Jonathan an IDF question. Let me ask Jonathan. Only a sociopath would defend that. Let me ask Jonathan a question. As a former IDF man and spokesman, it is reported that behind the closed door overnight meeting,

IDF Chief of Staff Major General Eyal Zamir vehemently opposed a Gaza City takeover, which he has repeatedly warned would endanger the lives of his soldiers and the remaining hostages held by Hamas. That was the Times of Israel reporting that. Are you not concerned as a former IDF man that the guy who's the chief of staff of the IDF right now thinks this is a

disastrous policy in the making? Yeah so this is the first time in the programme that we're actually talking something that's grounded somewhere close to facts, not all of the nonsense that Mehdi was spewing out. And by the way, I'll answer the question, Piers, but by the way, Mehdi, there's an

open position.

Let him speak, Mehdi.

Let him speak. No, no. You've been misrepresenting Cher Let him speak. No, no. You've been misrepresenting the cherry-picking line and re-going cherry-picking anything. Smotrich said we conquer, cleanse and remain in Gaza.

No, no, that's a factual quote. Please let him answer my question. Which Netanyahu agreed with. Jonathan, answer my question, please. I'll answer the question.

So, Lieutenant General Eyal Zamir is an excellent officer. He's the chief of staff of the IDF, and he's been leading the IDF with quite significant successes against Hezbollah, against the Iranians, and he is leading the IDF in our war, our very just war against Hamas. I am very happy that there's a debate and that's an ongoing discussion between the military echelon and the democratically elected echelon in Israel. I'm not so

happy that it's out in the open but I am aware that it's happening and I would say that what I read of the reported statements which I have from pretty reliable sources that are they're more or less accurate, maybe not really the tone and the intensity, but a lot of it is accurate. What I read is that the military, very correctly, is asking of the government, what is the end state here?

And government, please tell me what you intend for things to happen once we actually go in and fight Hamas and kill them in their tunnels and take out the remaining parts of the leadership and actually get the military part of the job done. And I think that's a very good point made by the IDF, because that is clarity that is needed. And until that is said and stipulated by the government, I think that it's good that the IDF, as a military in a democracy, is telling the elected democratic leadership that, well, I will execute the orders that you give me.

Here are the consequences. And I wish for you to tell me what the desired strategic end state is. And that's exactly what a military is supposed to do in combat. And I think that now the ball is in the court of the government where they will have to stipulate clearly and to a certain extent persuade the military and everybody serving

what exactly the end goal is. It's been reported again by the Times of Israel that during this six-hour Israeli Security Cabinet hearing last night that Netanyahu rejected the general's push to hold a vote over the current ceasefire deal on the table, which could see half of living hostages freed and the groundwork for a permanent end to the war. Now, Mehdi, what is also emerging is that there is a belief by Netanyahu

that the reason he is being so gung-ho about continuing with this is that President Trump has urged him to finish the war in Gaza with full force. What should we read into that? Yeah, I think we should read into that, that Donald Trump is 100 percent behind Netanyahu,

some of us warned he would be. I think there were some people who thought that there would be some daylight between Trump and Netanyahu, that Trump would somehow be better on Gaza than Biden and Harris were. And that's, as I've told you before, Piers, your pal Donald is full on the ethnic cleansing, the ridiculous Gaza Riviera plan allegedly involving Tony Blair and Jared Kushner at the White House, outrageous open plans for ethnic cleansing, all signed off on by Donald Trump, who said earlier this year that Palestinians

will have to leave Gaza and not come back, which is the definition of ethnic cleansing. That is what Israel and the American government are planning and cooking up for the people of Gaza. It's why the world has now turned belatedly against Israel on this genocide,

because it's so brazen what they're doing in terms of the man-made famine, in terms of the ethnic cleansing, all of this stuff. And, you know, the hostage canard keeps being put forward. Jonathan said earlier, oh, it's a partial deal. Yeah, that's what the Israelis wanted. The great irony is Hamas wanted a permanent deal, all the hostages for an end to the war. Netanyahu said no, partial deal.

Hamas agreed to that too, so they keep moving the goalposts because he doesn't want to end the war, Piers. Matthew Miller, Biden's former State Department spokesman, said recently that when he spoke to Netanyahu last year, Netanyahu said openly, we're going to be fighting for decades in Gaza. Today's show is brought to you by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night, all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them, with incredible results. Optimum Day is designed to boost your energy and support weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. And don't just take their word for it. Here

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or visit OxfordNatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part. Use the code peers, P-I-E-R-S, and get 70% off your first order. You're 70% off with the promo code peers. He wants this war to continue for his own reasons, for the ideological reasons of his cabinet allies and the military. You know,

the Israeli military has now come to its senses saying this is not helping. This is the same Israeli military that has committed multiple war crimes. I mean, Jonathan talked earlier about, you know, what the purpose of combat is. He said he was a proud IDF man. He's proudly part of a military that last week bombed a hospital,

not once, but twice, a double-tap strike, according to CNN, triple-tap strike, killing emergency responders, journalists, aid workers in front of our eyes. That is his glorious military. It's an Israeli military, which, according to Nick Maynard, peers who you know, British doctor, I interviewed him last month.

He said he treated Palestinian teenagers in his hospital in Gaza over the summer who were shot in the testicles, multiple children shot in the testicles by Jonathan's military, the same military that killed 15 paramedics in April. Maybe they were shot by Hamas, maybe. paramedics in April and then just buried them with their ambulances in the sand. They were buried in the sand by the Israeli military in April. They lied, the

Israelis. They said, oh the lights were off, we didn't know who they were, Hamas were firing. Turned out all to be a lie. You know what the Israelis did, Piers? They fired the deputy commander. That's it. Nobody went to prison, no one was charged, they murdered 15 people. That's the military that Jonathan's come to defend. The most immoral military right now in the world that is bombing hospitals in front of our eyes.

Jonathan?

Yeah, it's, you know, it's various levels of ridiculous, but listen, Mehdi, there's been a job opening. Israel finally got rid of Abu Obaida, a very prolific and well-to-do Hamas spokesperson.

Oh, fuck off. You've really got to get better with your Hamas propaganda. You're a racist, genocidal, war criminal. You support war criminals. Well, you're trying to put a target on me? Are you and Elon Levy trying to put a target on me? Are you trying to put a target on me?

You keep saying I'm Hamas and you support killing Hamas. You can't work with me, little Mehdi. Little Mehdi, you've done that shtick with Aylon, it doesn't impress me. But I'm telling you is that if you improve your Arabic just a bit, if you improve your Arabic just a bit, I think you are well on track to become a very prolific spokesperson for Hamas after the demise of Abu Ubaidah. Because you are just touting Hamas' propaganda lies. engaged in sexual violence against Palestinian women. You're being investigated in the International Criminal Court.

You are part of an army that is committing genocide, Jonathan. They killed 15, they killed 20 people at a hospital last week. I can condemn Hamas. You can't condemn the genocidal Israeli military.

All right, let me jump in.

Let me jump in.

Jonathan, let me jump in.

Yes.

And now you want to kill every journalist that speaks out against you.

You killed five journalists last week. Jonathan, on that, Jonathan, you killed five journalists last week. Your military killed five journalists. Let me ask a question please.

And you're doing a great job. And you're doing a great job as Julius Stryker. Let me ask a question because nobody can hear either of you. That's how history will remember you. Jonathan, about the incident, let me speak. About the incident that Mehdi is alluding to.

Where is all the talk about the hospital? I'm just about to ask him about the hospital. I can talk with the hospital. Let me do my job. Let me please ask you a question and do my job. So, Jonathan, the incident that Betty is alluding to, the double tap attack on a hospital which killed five journalists, this takes a total of journalists to over 200.

There are now journalists all over the world who are protesting about this, people from CNN, from Reuters, from AP, from every serious news organisation in the world, saying that there is a mini genocide going on with actual journalists in Gaza and that the only reason for this, the deliberate systematic attacks on journalists, is because Israel does not want people reporting on what is actually happening there. I know you agree with me, because you've said it many times, that Israel should allow the

international media in to do their jobs. But so far, they're not doing that. They're only allowing in certain friendly journalists embedded with the IDF to report what they want them to report. But until there is free unfettered access of journalists into that region to report on this stuff, there is a belief that Israel is going about now deliberately or

systematically killing Palestinian journalists to silence them. What is your response to that?

Yeah, that belief is wrong and I have a few things to say. First about the horrible, tragic mistake at Nasser Hospital. That is not what I envision in terms of Israeli operations. That is a tactical mistake by forces on the ground that saw a camera on top of a building, assessed that the camera was operated by Hamas, because Hamas has been operating cameras from all civilian buildings, including from hospitals, in order to monitor the troop movement of Israeli troops and then to detonate IEDs or otherwise to direct combat activity against Israeli troops.

And that is why when Israeli troops saw that camera and other activity on top of that building, they engaged. Regretfully, five journalists, some of them working for international media outlets, were killed. That is not a desired outcome. That is a mistake and that should not happen on the battlefield, full stop.

Six terrorists were also killed in that attack. When I spoke with six Hamas known operatives were killed. When I spoke with people in the IDF, my questions were actually about the second strike, which we saw live on an Arabic network, which I agree looks horrible, should not happen, and is something that I'm waiting for the IDF to investigate and to present findings and to say,

this is why the mistake happened, and these are the steps that we have taken in order to rectify it. And I believe that the IDF will do that. And I believe that this is not what the IDF was seeking to achieve,

because it was very clearly aid workers and others that were trying to rescue people that were wounded from the first engagement So this was not intentional This was a battlefield mistake in a chaotic or very difficult combat environment of troops that are under fire from civilian buildings that were the enemy uses hospitals and schools and mosques and houses in order to fire from this is the reality in Gaza made by Hamas,

which we many times gloss over. There was nobody fired from the hospital. No, as I said, they were from that, but first of all, Hamas has fired from the Nasser Hospital several times in the past, and Hamas has been using cameras from various buildings,

mosques, schools, and hospitals in Khan Younes, in Gaza, in Rafah, in all of the Palestinian villages and cities. And that is why the IDF thought that the cameras that they saw were linked to Hamas. But I'm saying it very clearly. That was not the intended outcome.

Mehdi?

Can I respond, Piers? Yeah. So on this hospital attack, let's just be very clear here, because so much gaslighting going on here. First of all, I'm old enough to remember October 2023, when the world went mad to suggest that Israel would ever

attack a hospital. We were told for months Israel would never attack a hospital. Now, they proudly attack a hospital and try and justify it with nonsense justifications. We attacked it because there was a Hamas camera on the roof. First of all, it wasn't a Hamas camera. It was a Reuters camera. Reuters already gave the Israeli military their positions. There were no Hamas cameras on the roof. It's a ridiculous new phase of Israeli propaganda to say it was a Hamas

camera justifying killing 20 people, which was insane. Okay, let me speak. If you stop interrupting. If you stop interrupting, then I'll deal with that live. You said it. Tether yourself. Let Mehdi respond, please. Hamas terrorist. Let Mehdi respond. You're lying. I'm never going to get through a single answer on this show.

Let Mehdi respond. Six Israel Hamas operatives were not killed. You claim they were killed. No evidence has been provided to the international media that there were six Hamas operatives there. In fact, the six photos that were released Hamas operators who were killed in that strike.

As for it being a mistake, how can it be a mistake, Piers, when it was a double... Can you shut up so I can finish your sentence? Piers, am I going to get to speak? Jonathan, you're just going to let one person speak all the time. But I mean, if you're going to lie and you're going to expect me to... Let me know when I can speak. Jonathan please let him respond. is lie and take money from the Qataris and slander Israel. All right, let me know, Piers, when I can speak.

Jonathan, please let him respond. Because he won't shut up. I need to be able to make a point. No one can understand you when you talk over each other.

Medi, finish your point.

Six Hamas operatives were not killed. Six Hamas operatives were not killed. Israel claims they were killed. It's been debunked. Twenty people were killed, including five journalists. It couldn't have been a tragic mistake, as Jonathan claims, because it was a double tap strike. The Israeli media reported that the Israeli military did it deliberately in Israel. In Hebrew, they're not saying was accident. They said it was

a coordinated attack, a double tap strike. How do. It's deliberately to kill emergency responders. 972, an Israeli media organization, says it is now standard procedure for the Israeli military to do double tap strikes. Last summer in Mawassi, the New York Times has video of the Israelis doing a double tap strike on Palestinian paramedics. You know what Israel said at the time, Pierce? We will investigate this incident. Guess what? A year later, no investigation. No one was charged. No one was punished. They always say this to gullible interviewers in the West. Well, we're investigating this mistake.

Not a single Israeli soldier has gone to prison for killing anyone in Gaza since October 2023. You'll remember, Piers, I said that to Alan Dershowitz on your show. I remain to be fact-checked. It is true.

Nobody went to prison for killing 15 paramedics in April. Nobody went to prison for the Mawassi double-tack last summer. No one will go to prison for killing 20 people in this hospital. Jonathan and his military love to do war crimes and no one holds them to account.

Jonathan?

Nonsense. Israeli officers have been removed from their positions. Who's gone to prison? Israeli soldiers. Jonathan, who's gone to prison? Israeli soldiers. Who's gone to prison?

Yes. Israeli soldiers. You said nonsense Jonathan, who's gone to prison? Ah, I was right. I said nonsense which is everything that comes from your mouth is either Hamas propaganda or ISIS or both. And yes. And yes. And yes. And yes. And yes. IDF soldiers. You and Alan Dershowitz cannot name a single Israeli soldier who has gone to prison.

Let me hear him what he has to say. IDF soldiers, yes, IDF soldiers have been disciplined and sent to military prison for misconduct and there are still open investigations by the military advocate general about... Yes they have. I don't remember the name but I know of several Israeli soldiers.

You're lying. Anyone can Google it right now. No, I'm not. Jonathan Conricus is lying to you. In April, 15 Palestinians were killed. You can say whatever you want. You can continue to make up half-truths. It's a fact. Google it. Sky News has the story. And sprinkle lies as much as you want. I know for a fact that Israeli soldiers have been disciplined, even sent, even sent...

Mehdi, for someone who complains about being interrupted, you sure are interrupting a lot. Yeah, I am interrupting Jonathan. I am interrupting you. You don't like it when he does it. So I'm going to fact check your lies. That's how it works, Jonathan.

Mehdi, you're not in a position to fact check anything. You're a mouth for hire. You're a paid propagandist. Who are you to fact check anything? The viewers are fact checking. You are a mouth for hire with no moral tethering in the world.

You are a mouthpiece for Hamas and for Qatari money. Who are you to fact check anybody? Who are you to fact check? You have no legal standing. You have no moral standing. You have no factual standing, Mehdi.

The last time you visited anywhere near a war zone was maybe 20 years ago.

You realize nobody can understand a word you guys are saying, right?

You do realize that.

Who are you to fact check me?

They can see you.

Do you realize when you both talk at the same time, nobody can hear either of you? You realize that, right? I mean, we all understand. You should have got him to stop interrupting for the entire show then.

Everybody understands that when you both talk at once, nobody hears you. You can both sides it, Piers, and use your wants. You both find the others interrupting. But you know very clearly that Jonathan's been the entire segment interrupting. Well, you both hate the other one interrupting you, then you both do it yourselves. And Piers, who did all the interrupting for the first half of the show?

Be honest. Piers, who did all the interrupting for the first half of the show? Be honest. You're right up there with Jonathan. Now, you don't get to start the end. Well, you don't start the end.

Even more than that, Merdi. No, you're not reacting. You're instigating, and you are a mouth that is being paid

by various sources. You killed journalists to silence them. You can't handle people. You can't handle them.

You can't kill me.

You represent a hatred of Western society, you represent dubious clandestine racist. Let me ask you a question Jonathan. Let me ask you a question Jonathan. I am Western. I'm born in the West.

Let me ask you a question please.

I am born in the West. Please, otherwise I'll just stop it. It's pointless. Jonathan, I want to ask you a question. I thought I was coming on to debate John Spencer. I'm listening. Not this, not this ridiculous war criminal.

Yeah, you're ridiculous, Merdi. A small man far away from action who represents nothing.

But I'm not a war criminal.

You're the one who's in a military that's being investigated. No, and neither am I. And the International Court of Justice. OK. justice. I'm a former member of the military that's being investigated at the ICJ and the ICC. Not just a mouth for hire. You were a Julius Stryker propagandist for the Israeli military. Not just a mouth for hire that's paid by I don't know whom to slander as well. I'm gonna leave it there and you

can carry on talking to each other. It's a bit pointless because no one can understand a word you're saying. I'm very glad you both set the right tone for not interrupting each other. You should have moderated better, Piers. It's a shame because actually it was an interesting debate. You should have moderated better at the beginning, Piers, because I don't like being interrupted. I'm sure the viewers will conclude that I'm the problem here. I'm sure they will. I think they will in the first half, Piers. I'm sure the viewers will conclude that the endless interruptions by my imitations is my fault. Every time I come on this show I get interrupted by Dershowitz, by... Yeah but you then keep interrupting them as well.

Maybe because you're so full of it, maybe because the lies that you say are so full of it. Yes, that's what happens, Piers.

You can't do asymmetric warfare.

That's exactly what happens.

I'm not going to play by one set of a military that rapes Palestinian women. You open your mouth and you lie. You are the last person on the planet. You're a military that rapes Palestinian men and women.

Thank you both very much. Piers, my invitation still stands, by the way. If we're still on, my invitation still stands for you to come to Gaza.

Here's the point, Jonathan. I have no interest in being led by the IDF to what you guys want me to see. My only interest is in allowing great international independent journalists from the major news organizations who are genuine war correspondents, which I'm not, to go and do their jobs. And the longer they're not allowed to do it, the more the stench of suspicion grows. The reason for that is that the Israeli government does not want the world to see what is really going on. You know what my view of that is. I think you broadly agree

with it. So me going in on some IDF embed with you where you go, see, look, we're right. See, look, we're right. No, that's not how this works. I want the proper war correspondents who know what they're doing to go in and to be assessing independently without the IDF telling them what to look at.

That's not how war correspondents operate.

I think you're setting the bar a bit too high, Piers. I think you're setting the bar a bit too high. And I think that isn't something that has happened neither in Mosul nor in Afghanistan or in other places of Iraq or in Syria. That's usually not what happens in an active war zone.

Well, that is not what the journalists are telling me. They're telling me they want to be allowed to do

their jobs and they've not been allowed to do it now since this war started. Well, that's fine that that's what they want but I but I think we should start with at least coming in and as I've said I think you've been leading this battle and having quite an impact. And I think if anybody gets the credit for it, it probably should be you. And I would be more than happy to facilitate it.

OK, I appreciate the offer. Thank you very much, Jonathan. Many years sadly left us. I appreciate you both coming on.

Thank you.

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