‘We DON’T Want More STUPID WARS!’ 10 Years of MAGA & Andrew Tate Masculinity Debate

Donald Trump is certainly not the vision of masculinity that I think, you know, people would say, oh, if I were to look the word up in a dictionary, it would be the guy who's covered in theatrical cake makeup and wears lifts in his shoes and, you know, a girdle.

Don't try to tell us what masculinity and femininity is.You don't even know what words mean.

all of this just nonsense.

Look, I'm just sitting back watching because it's kind of like I need some popcorn.But I would hardly say that I've ever been badly behaved because I have convictions and because I believe in what I have to say.

This week marked 10 years since a moment which changed politics, the United States, and the world forever.

Friends, delegates, and fellow Americans, I humbly and gratefully accept your nomination for the presidency of the United States.USA, USA, USA, USA.

Not long after that, the now President Trump delivered the defining words of his movement and his two presidencies in front of what Sean Spicer called the biggest audience in the history of humanity.

From this day forward, a new vision will govern our land.From this day forward, forward.It's going to be only America first.America first.

Well, a quiet period then followedgive or take a pandemic and the failed revolutions led by QAnon and BLM.Trump was cast into the political wilderness, but he began his political comeback with this speech.

These globalists want to squander all of America's strength, blood, and treasure, chasing monsters and phantoms overseas.In addition, there must also be a complete commitment to dismantling the entire globalist neocon establishment that is perpetually dragging us into endless wars, pretending to fight for freedom and democracy abroad.

No more pointless endless wars was the message.It was popular, and we heard it many times after that as the new MAGA coalition returned him to office against all odds.For those who write off all current criticism of Trump as anti -Israel or Democrat propaganda, listen to what Brit humor Fox News said this week.

He promised to keep us out of endless wars or unsatisfactory wars and now he's in one and it's not at all clear how it's going to end.

Well, he did promise to keep us out of endless wars.He is now in one.And 10 years on from the week MAGA began, many now argue that Trump's entire legacy and the future of the movement built in his image has been destroyed by the Iran war.Are they right?Joining us now is a superb trio.Andrew Wilson, host of The Crucible.

Dave Smith, host of Part of the Problem.And Joran Carducci, a .k .a.JoJo, from JERS, when she's not abusing me on X, as you have been recently, haven't you?

Me?

Never.We'll come to that.Dave Smith, Donald Trump is an extraordinary political figure, whatever way you look at it.This guy came out of nowhere in politics.He was a television and real estate guy who beat the most qualified candidate in history in Hillary Clinton in 2016.He then lost in 2020, went off everyone assumed to wilderness and ignominy, and then pulled off the greatest comeback in American political history and became president all over again.

And now is just as divisive and controversial and polarizing as he was first time around.But there's no disputing the fact that this guy has won two terms with four off in the middle for bad behavior.

Yeah.Well, man, I agree with everything you said there.And there's so much that's important.And this is just so not the most important thing.But did you just say Hillary Clinton was the most qualified person to ever run for president?She claimed to be.

Go claim to be.If you remember, her great claim was that she was the most qualified candidate in history and that Trump was the least qualified.I mean, Eisenhower won World War Two, but I guess she was married to the president.So yeah, that's okay.Anyway, I'm sorry.That's just such a ridiculous claim.

I forgot that she used to make that you're right.It's been Trump's been the biggest political phenomenon in modern American history.However you feel about him.I mean, it's for a decade, he's ruled the minds of more American people than any political figure imaginable.As you said, greatest political comeback.in history.

And of course, what Donald Trump really represented, the whole movement, I think from the very beginning, was a frustration with the American people against the establishment, the drain the swamp, lock her up, the whole message of the idea that DC has been run by reckless, corrupt idiotic leaders who have taken the United States of America and left it bankrupt and weakened and all of this.I think in terms of what his legacy ends up being, it's tough to say that at this point.I do think for sure that, yeah, when you launch a war of choice, man, you put all your chips in as far as legacy goes as a commander.-in -chief.And so he will be judged off the results of this war.And I – yeah, as you know, as I've made the case many times on the show, my prediction of that is that it's going to be a disaster.

I think he's destroyed his coalition and set back the party quite a bit.Ultimately, in some ways, Donald Trump's going to be judged by what the what the long term change of his administration was.And I got to say, from my perspective, I think while he did revolutionize American political culture, and in many ways, American political media, I don't think he revolutionized at all the American system of government.And for the last 25 years, we've had an experiment, the biggest experiment in human history in big government spending on artificially low interest rates and printing money.We've printed more money in the last 15 years than have ever been printed in history and spent more money from the federal government.In that same period of time, we've had record high levels of immigration.

That really hasn't changed over the last 10 years.It's only gotten worse.

Andrew Wilson, you posted, I've always said I don't support the war, but still support Trump.Now, Of course, Trump refuses to call it a war, because if it was a war, he'd have to get congressional approval for it.And American presidents don't tend to do that.So you haven't officially had a war since World War II, I think.But notwithstanding that, how big a threat to Trump's overall legacy could this Iran war end up being?

I could ruin him.I mean, what Smith says is essentially correct.The idea that now he's being compared with Jimmy Carter when he had been ripping Carter to pieces, especially in his first term, I think bodes very, very poorly for him.I do agree that it has divided his base substantially and it's weakened him as a president, this particular conflict.I don't think that it was ultimately a good idea and he should move back to domestic issues.if he doesn't want this to completely corrupt his entire political ideology and the America First messaging.

You know, Jojo, welcome back to Uncensored.We'll come to your thoughts on me a little later.But the thoughts on Trump, you know, the problem for me looking at all this is the Democrats have spent 10 years, as Dave said, you know, He's been this huge figure for 10 years.And they spent 10 years screaming about how awful he is.He's a Nazi.He's Hitler.

He's a fascist.He's this.He's that.And yet, after four years without Trump, the American people, in bigger numbers, voted for him to come back.And that's not just a positive for Trump and his powers of recovery and amazing comeback and so on.It's a damning repudiation of the other side, your side.

right, who just allowed this to happen, in my estimation.And when I look at the political arena now on the left, I'm like, well, where is the person that's actually going to see off Trump or Trumpism?I don't see that person yet.I don't see the new Clinton, Bill Clinton, the new Obama, the new Democrat, liberal rock star who's going to come along and go, you know what, forget talking about this guy.I'm the future.Vote for me.

This is part of the problem for the left.

I don't disagree with you.in terms of what happened in 2024.But I will say that we do have quite a deep bench when it comes to potential candidates for 2028.John Ossoff is just one.We have Chris Murphy is another.I mean, the list is really long in terms of how many people I think will be standing up and meeting this moment.

I think the Democrats have a real challenge of threading the needle.in opposing Trump, standing up to Trump, criticizing Trump, and showing the American people that they actually have something to offer as well.I think that's one of the big mistakes that we made in 2024.But I also think We were not necessarily that adept at messaging how things were going versus how Republicans were saying they were going.And right now, in terms of Trump's legacy, I think it's incumbent upon us to say, to tie him, to tether him and Republicans to what is happening right now, to the fact that he alone is responsible, or at least during his two terms collectively up until this point, for 28 % of the entire current U .S.

national debt, $39 .6 trillion, under Donald Trump's first term and this two years.So I think it's important that we talk about that.I think it's important that we talk about what is happening in this war that he says that is not a war, that he sold as a quick, decisive operation, that we are five months, at least $38 billion into, 18 service members deceased, 400 plus wounded, no exit strategy.We haven't accomplished, not only haven't we accomplished any of the objectives that he set out, but we've actually given Iran essentially control over the trade of Hormuz.Gas is $4 a gallon again.I think we need to, the Democrats, need to manage to thread the needle where they talk about what he has done and is doing to our country, his legacy that is also economic, but this protracted war and what we offer the American people, because that's what's what's missing.

OK, I mean, Dave Smith, you know, I felt from day one of this war, it was a massive miscalculation.And that and at best, a terrible misjudgment based on, I think, the persuasive powers of Benjamin Netanyahu and the head of Moscow.to buy into a sequence of events which just hasn't materialised.But if Trump had his time again, as we can see from the current distancing with Netanyahu, that he probably wouldn't have gone into it.It's interesting.I mean, Jojo said about the war, they've lost everything.

militarily and they're able to kill our heroes because this fucking sociopath, Trump, doesn't have a goddamn care in the world about how many of our troops die in his illegal for personal profit bullshit war.Now, I would say that is a mischaracterization.Correct me if you think I'm wrong.Whenever I've talked to Trump publicly or privately, he's always, always wanted to avoid death in combat.And he has been very perturbed by the enormous number of deaths, for example, in the Ukraine war.He talks about it a lot privately.

How many young men are getting killed on a daily basis on the front line there?I don't think he doesn't care about the lies of American forces.I think he genuinely has always viewed Iran as a massive threat.And he got traduced by Netanyahu into believing this was the right moment and the sequence of events the Israelis put forward would happen.In other words, it was a terrible mistake.He shouldn't have done it.

An appalling error of judgment to trust what he was being told and sold.But ultimately, I don't think it was the actions of someone who doesn't care about the lives of American servicemen.I think where he's got himself is that, unfortunately, he doesn't know how to get out of this now.And so more and more servicemen are getting pulled in and getting killed.And I don't know if he knows an exit route for this.

Yeah, well, I don't know if you're asking to speculate what's in his heart or how much he cares about every one of these 19 -year -olds who he's gotten killed.I don't know.It is true that he certainly tried to resist conflicts, including this conflict, in his first term, and the exact same factions were trying to pull him into this war and trying to pressure him into it in his first term, and he resisted.If you remember after the Iranians shot down the drone, after the Soleimani strike, there were lots of pressures to get into it, and he resisted those.And he resisted even in the 12 -day war, took the first off -ramp that nobody in Trump's own government went along with this and backed it up.And nobody in his intelligence, of course, nobody was saying it's a slam dunk that you can get a regime change through the air with no ground forces.

I'm not sure that's ever been done in military history.And so, yeah, it's kind of a crazy idea that he got tricked into this by the Israelis.I suppose that's possible after Venezuela.The bottom line here, Pierce, is this.He launched the war.Those people are dead as a result of it.

This is what leadership comes down to, right?Okay, now here's the interesting thing about this latest round.We're at the darkest point in this war so far, Pierce.He's back to threatening, and now he's even taken moves toward bridge and power plant day.He's threatening to do this the next time.The Iranians are not backing down.

But Pierce, what's really different about this go -around of the war?Last week, in his walkdown, he walked away from all of the original war aims, Pierce.Every last reason that we supposedly were fighting this war, he backed off of the first line, the very first line.in the memorandum of understanding is that there'll be a ceasefire in Hezbollah.So we're not saying they can't fund their terrorist proxies.He walked away from ballistic missiles.

He walked away from the nuclear dust.He walked away from zero enrichment.He walked away from the whole thing.We're just fighting over the Strait and Lebanon now, two issues that didn't exist before the war.I mean, I'm sorry, five months into it, if that's not a disaster, I don't know what is.

Yeah, I mean, Andrew, you know, it is a disaster, isn't it?I mean, I don't don't see how Trump can extricate any kind of legitimate victory here.Do you?

No, I don't.It's this has not been a a good foreign policy decision for the Trump administration.I not only concede that that's true, but never thought it was a great idea.I think that, I would disagree with Dave in I guess a nuanced way that I think that Trump became very overly reliant on his very decisive military victories that he did have, that were always very limited, very quick, mission accomplished, he was out, and then he could brag.This is altogether a different situation.So no, I don't think that I don't think that this is good for the administration.

I wish that they would focus back on domestic policies as Democrats have nothing at all to offer.Nobody's excited about any Democrat candidates.That's where the war should be being fought is domestically.

Okay, Jojo.I mean, look, if you compare Trump's war record over two terms with Obama, You would compare it quite favorably.I mean, yes, it is appalling that 18 servicemen lost their lives.But actually, over Trump's two terms, fewer people have died serving their country for the United States in combat than pretty much under any president in modern times.So this is not like he's a natural warmonger.Why would you think he's

care about troops dying?I mean, I know for a fact he calls the families of everyone who dies.

Well, I also know for a fact that in the first term, he was on a call with a widow who had recently lost her husband.And the words that she said he used were that her husband had known what he signed up for.So I also know that he skipped five.dignified transfers over the course of his two terms for troops who died in Lithuania.He was at an event, I believe, for Live Golf at Mar -a -Lago instead, and he skipped the dignified transfer from one soldier who was killed in Lithuania.relationship to this illegal war in Iran.

I don't have any metric to point to that tells me that Donald Trump cares about any loss of life.I mean, we could talk about COVID and the fact that while a thousand Americans were dying a day, he said to Jonathan Swan that it is what it is.But the fact that he continues to talk about how many troops we've lost in other wars.I mean, if the Vietnam War is the hill you're going to die on to use to justify 18 American service members dying in a war you launched that you said we won on day one, five months and $38 billion ago.He doesn't say anything with true empathy or sympathy.He treats these deaths like they are just props and statistics and numbers on a page.

He said today on the tarmac, before he went to this dignified transfer, that the soldiers who had died said out loud somehow that they wanted to make sure that Iran never had a nuclear weapon, which, by the way, we haven't done anything to stop, even though he told usrepeatedly that their ability to do so was obliterated, that their military was obliterated.We've heard this for months.We've heard this since the bunker buster last year.

Yeah, the problem is, I just think it's inarguable now that the real danger for Trump is that he becomes a boy that cries wolf.He keeps saying stuff that doesn't materialise.That's always been him.He wants to go from annihilating Iran one minute to we can deal with these people, they're all great people to deal with.

Go on.the world.deaths of millions of innocent civilians and Barack Obama after running as the anti -war candidate, launching wars in Syria and Libya and Yemen and Somalia, just killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.So I don't want to hear, but the whole point is that Donald Trump ran against that.Donald Trump said, we're not being like that anymore.He pointed to the fact that we wasted trillions of dollars and pointed to the fact that we

this specific war would be a disaster.We've had Tulsi Gabbard as the DNI for almost the entire thing.She sold no war in Iran t -shirts.J .D.Vance warned against this war, like this was such a huge part of the coalition.

It was such a big part of the energy and the momentum that Donald Trump seized.This was the deep state.This was the Bidens and the Clintons in the bushes.They're the ones who wanted forever wars in the Middle East, not the America First movement.And by giving that up, yeah, he's...We've lost a lot of that energy and now these dirty commies who were against the war have the wind at their back.

Yeah, that's all completely true.Let's just segue to another big story this week of the arrest of Andrew and Tristan Tate in the United States.Now these two, Andrew in particular, have become a kind of talisman to millions of young men around the world, which many people think is a pretty unhealthy state of affairs.You've all been on the record about the Tates previously, and I completely accept that news events have moved on, but it has split the right in America.And I want to play a clip from Ben Shapiro talking about this.

Folks, if Republicans would like third worldists to win, you know, these commie Castro standing revolutionaries who desire ardently to subdue and overthrow America.If Republicans want those people to win, then you probably should keep allowing the retard right to take over the party.Now, call me crazy.I think that's that when law enforcement prosecutes the guys pushing pimping hose degrees to young men via TikTok and sexually abusing underage girls, I think when those people get arrested, that's probably a good thing.

And I believe and I think they believed that they had some level of diplomatic protection from the United States, particularly from the Trump administration.Tate brothers have been good allies.They've been a pretty good sport.the Trump administration.And from what we've heard today, it sounds like Trump is not going to lift a finger to help them.And so we'll see what happens in this hearing, but it's not looking good.

Go figure.Golden age.We have all these indictments that we were promised.And of all people, it is the Tate brothers.

So Andrew, let me start with you here.In March 2025, you said Christians should stop bitching about Tate.As long as Christians allow feminism and sewing circle lunatics to punish all forms of masculine expression in Christianity, men like Tate will reign.As long as the message is feminine only, Tate will beat you every time.What do you feel about him now?

I mean, it's still true.There's nothing that I said there that was false.As long as it's the case that masculinity is punished, you're going to see men who say that it's OK to have traditional masculine capabilities.You're going to see those people glorified no matter what.So in this case, you could say, hey, these guys are pimps.You can attack them personally.

You can say that you don't like how they behave.But what's never really attacked is the messaging And if the messaging was attacked, I think that leftists and feminists would have a much better time.But nobody really attacks the messaging.They just attack the people.And it's like throwing throwing the tates in jail isn't going to change the fact that having a pro -masculine message is a good idea.And it's something that the right wing needed desperately.

And it's something that Christian ethicists need to focus on as well.

It's OK to be a man.It's OK to be masculine.I agree about the attacks on masculinity.And I think that's part of the reason for the rise of people like the Tates.However, they were brazenly misogynist in open sight.They didn't hide it.

They spoke in a revolting way about women.They wanted women to stay at home, have nohave no job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.This was all being done in plain view.They were quite proud of it.And I was surprised how many on the conservative right, the Christian conservative right in particular, prepared to tolerate that.

Well, there's overlap between ideologies.Christian right -wingers who are part of traditional churches, those are patriarchal churches.So you have overlap in some cases with the ideology.So of course some of them are like, hey look, I don't agree with the pimping, I don't agree with the various things that these people do, but some of the messaging I do agree with.And the fact that men are latching on to that messaging opens the door for Christian ethicists to come in and say, hey look, masculinity is okay.The pimping part's not okay, the prostituting women out's not okay, but the masculinity aspect of it and the patriarchal aspect of it under the true church is perfectly acceptable.

That's why so many Roman Catholics, Orthodox and high church Protestants were able to kind of latch onto that message inside the manosphere and start turning the tide towards the Christian ethics in a way from the only fans and pimping and prostitution, et cetera.

Jojo you said if you're getting your facts from Andrew Tate congratulations you're an idiot and asshole and also very likely an incel and you need to get back to your basement dwelling raid spanking and video gaming because the grown -ups are busy working.Now you know in a way my issue with that would be that you're targeting I think a lot of people who I would categorize as victims of Tate.Impressionable young men who feel a bit disenfranchised, feel a bit under attack, and are gravitated to people who have a rhetoric and a style of delivering it, which is a lot of the time quite empowering, you know, get fit, get mentally strong, want to do this, want to succeed.but nothing wrong with any of that.But then they have this nefarious side to them and just how nefarious we're going to discover when they're finally put on trial.But is it fair of you to just demonize everyone that gravitated to them in the way that you did?

I think it's unfair for me to demonize the tapes, but I also think that we have a conflation of what the word masculinity means, right?I mean, again, Andrew Tate was was arrested in pedal pushers and a purple shirt with his.chest hanging out.I mean, the whole thing has been memed a million times.But, you know, Donald Trump is certainly not the vision of masculinity that I think, you know, people would say, oh, if I were to look the word up in a dictionary, it would be the guy who's covered in theatrical cake makeup and wears lifts in his shoes and, you know, a girdle.But I think that it's been incredibly damaging to young men in this country that conflation of what masculinity is has meant bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, bragging about raping women, bragging about beating women.

I'm the mom of a 16 -year -old boy who will tell me that he sees his friends who watch this shit and think that that guy's cool, that that guy is what it means to be manly.I think that's a bigger referendum on what's happening in our culture as a whole.Like again, as I said, as a mom of a 16 -year -old son who went through the pandemic, I would say that video games, that he was isolated with his friends, that they were playing games like, what's the one that they all play?I can't think of it.Where instantaneous gratification, so that they weren't having, you know, conversations with people face -to -face, those kinds of things that are crucial to their development, they were missing.And these guys came in and filled that void.

But I would say that if at this point, if at any point you're somebody who's looking at the tates and saying, yeah, that's what it means to be a man, then you're confused to say the very least.And something else is missing in your life that you're trying to fill with this manufactured idea of what it is to be a man.Yeah.

So this is, if you weren't talking about conflation, right?Conflating messaging.This is a woman who said that Charlie Kirk was the king of the incels, right?So talk about, talk, talk about what words, talk about what don't, don't know what words mean, right?A guy married to former model, right?Who has children is king of the incels.

It's like, give me a break.That's one.She also said that he was the head.He's the king of Hitler youth, right, in TV USA.They don't know what words mean.And so here she's going to pretend that suddenly she knows what the word masculinity means.

Masculinity is set and enriched through virtue ethics and the idea of the virtues around the male and the idea of virtues around the feminine.That's how we even know what femininity is, what masculinity is.There are some parts of Tate's message that I agree with you are really, really poor when it comes to that.But there's other parts of his message that weren't.very poor when it comes to that.So don't try to tell us what masculinity and femininity is.

You don't even know what words mean.If you're gonna call a guy like Charlie Kirk the king of the incels, you don't even know what words mean.

Because Charlie Kirk was married to Erika Kirk, who, by the way, may or may not have been introduced to him by Donald Trump.That's because she worked for Donald Trump before she met Charlie.So what?Yes.So what?Well, there's lots of speculation as to how that all came to pass.

But to say that Charlie Kirk was the kingthe incels is not a referendum on Charlie Kirk's choices in his life.Charlie Kirk went to college campuses with Turning Point and courted young men who were incels.They were voluntarily celibate.They were, they believed.What?

What are you talking about?Just making stuff up?

No, Charlie Kirk was on college campuses.bunch of young guys who didn't know where they belonged, right?They didn't have a group.

That doesn't make them incels, though, Joe.That doesn't make them incels.

And he fills this void.And yeah, that was part of the original draw of Charlie Kirk.

How does that make them incels, Joe?How would that make them incels?He has a pro -marriage, pro -family message.Get married.

They wanted to blame somebody else for the fact that they didn't have enough game to get a girl.

So it was somebody else just making it up.That's, that's not TPUSA's message.

You have no Charlie Kirk fan ever.It's always like the liberals have to say this was his appeal, but you're not a fan of his and no fan of his has ever once said that was the appeal.But anyway, to be People on the left, it's like they call everything Hitler.And then when something that looks like Hitler shows up, they go, oh my God, where did it come from?And it's like, dude, it's a direct reaction to you.It is so obviously a direct reaction to you.

Is it a coincidence?Is it a coincidence that the Tates happened to blow up after 50 years?of the left lecturing the entire society about toxic masculinity and enforcing safe spaces and all of this just nonsense, the excesses of the Me Too movement?It is so - We're not sure what men and women are, Dave.Yes, yes.We don't know the difference between boys and girls.

This is an overcorrection two years ago.you come around and say these things to two guys like me and Andrew who are husbands and fathers who are promoting more traditional family.By the way, Pierce, when you said it's not the message of the Tates that women should be at home and not vote and be in the kitchen.You're getting closer to me and Andrew territory with that.Their message was like, you should put women out in front of like a webcam and sexually exploit them.And this stuff that I think is just horrible.

This idea that you shouldn't talk with your wife is horrible.

Andrew Tate grew increasingly misogynistic in terms of stay at home and stuff when he became a Muslim.

All of this, so I don't like any of that pimp shit.I hate it.I believe in pushing like a family message.I think that's where you find true happiness and meaning for both men and women, and it's better for children, and it's better for society.That being said, none of that matters right now.These are American citizens who are being charged with a crime, and all that matters is specifically what's going on here.

And I gotta say, Pierce, without knowing the details of the crime at all, I will say from my perspective as an American, I'm humbled that I don't know that much about your country.What I've been reading about you guys, I feel pretty nervous about extraditing Americans to your judicial system right now, dude.It has shown so much corruption and so much, quite frankly, political and bias.over the years that I think a lot of people rightfully do go.Is this really about the crime that they committed or is this about some type of political agenda?By the way, a long philosophical conversation that Andrew would be better to break down than me is that, by the way, Andrew, from the liberal world,

From the progressive world view, they endorse OnlyFans.They consider it to be empowering for women to be online prostitutes.The only time they object is if a man's involved getting a cut of the money.That's it.

That's the only time a government liberal would object.Look, to be fair, there are very serious charges, including sex trafficking, rape, sexual abuse, and child pornography.

Yeah, but the whole groundwork is framed for there to be pimps when you glorify prostitution.And they glorify prostitution.a cam girl for them being abusive to women.

I mean, this is again, blaming women.You can pick and choose that some of the things that the tape brothers have done have been potentially bad, but not all of it is bad.Is that how it works?You would say this would disqualify somebody whole hog if they've been accused of the things that they have been accused of how can you support them at all?Hang on, hang on.

First of all, hang on, hang on.

Let me respond to you, Jill.

Do you realize that there's going to be some things right?Hang on, hang on.You're doing it right now.You just picked and choose things you agree with Dave Smith on.But in his overall view, you would absolutely hate him and my view.But you pick and choose the things you agree with us on.

Yeah, the war.We can agree on the war.

Yeah, exactly.That doesn't mean that I would endorse either one of you guys as exactly I would advocate other people.

we may all reach consensus on.I don't know, we might do, we might not.But another attack by Candice Owens this week on Erica Kerr.Let's take a listen to some of this.

I've been on a wild pursuit of fame and fortune your entire life.You started doing pageants, I think we showed, when you were like 12, okay?Sixth grade, maybe?And you have not stopped wanting to be in the spotlight.Every person you have dated has had some degree of fame, and you saw Charlie as your ticket to more fame.And then you finally got it, in your view, when you walked out in a white pantsuit, with sparklers behind you, and you sucked all that in.

That was it.That was the moment.

I've got to say, Andrew, you know, I've become increasingly disturbed by the relentless onslaught against Erica Kirk by Candace Owens.I think it's disgusting.I think it's inhumane.I think whatever you think of Erica Kirk's public appearances or interviews or whatever, she was there with their two young children when she saw her husband assassinated, murdered, shot dead.And to target a grieving widow in such a relentless campaign without any real evidence for any of the nonsensical theories she's putting forward, I think is actually pretty evil.What do you think?

We have right now a $200 ,000 offer for Candace Owens to debate.her theories on charlie kirk with yours truly i was uh... say publicly right now in your show we will up it to three hundred thousand just to have this woman actually debate her views yet but they can't none of them cannot her number or orbiters like baron coleman and others they all refused to actually debate their views now you might ask wise why is this a case It's because she's the pot calling the kettle black.Imagine a woman works for PragerU, works for TPUSA, works for the, you know, Ben Shapiro, works for all these people and then says, hey, this other woman over here.she's a clout chaser.It's like, give me a break.Pot calling the kettle black across the board.

No evidence whatsoever on the Owens side for any of their crazy conspiracies.And you find out on top of that, that many of the people who are within their orbit who push this like the Un -Fuck -America tour and others, guess what?They're funded by ActBlue.Oh, go figure.They're funded by ActBlue and trying to use this as a wedge issue to try to divide TPUSA and the Republicans at large.It's being used as a wedge issue.

Now, can you criticize TPUSA for a Zionist message or having had a Zionist message or too pro -Israel?Sure.Can you criticize Erica Kirk and her personal opinions?Absolutely.Can you do all of this?I think that that's all fine, but that's not actually what's going on.

What's actually going on is that this is being used as a wedge issue for a revenge plot.And that's what they want.They want revenge against the evil TPUSA.That's what she wants.And they will do anything to get it because for the first time ever, Republicans have outreach into universities, which is where we've been wanting to be my entire lifetime.And they're doing everything they can to destroy that, both progressives and this alternative movement.

And they're such cowards, they won't even debate their views.

Yeah, Dave, I mean, to me, I've actually ironically got a $300 ,000 bet for charity with Candace Owens about Bridget Macron, whether she's a male or female.I believe she's a female who's had three children.

the ongoing court case will determine that, and I suspect I'll win my bet.You didn't get any odds on that?You just went head -to -head?

I went head -to -head, and the truth is, even when she loses, which she will, Candice will claim the whole thing is rigged and this and that, because she's a delusional fantasist or a cynical fantasist who just does this stuff for clicks and clout and money.What do you feel, though?I mean, I just feel likethis attack on Erica Kirk has gone on pretty much from when Charlie Kirk got murdered.It's just despicable.I just wake up and think, how can you do this to a grieving young widow?

How can anyone do that?

Am I wrong?Okay, first of all, I'm gonna say, like, if you and Andrew are just given like $300 ,000 out to someone, I'll do I like debates and bets.All right, I don't know if we're just paying.So listen, I'll say this.Number one, I'll beat you for free, Dave.Yeah, tell a lie.

I've already had that, Andrew.I want to make money here this time.That's the point.So no, I mean, I'll say this.I don't know how I feel about using the grieving widow card.You know, I was friends with Charlie Kirk, but I was not close friends with him in the way that other people were.

I would certainly feel strange saying, you know, like attacking his widow.And I also don't want to judge anybody based on how they react after something like that happens to them, because it's very traumatic.There is something where once you jump in there and you're leading an organization and you're constantly in the media and you're becoming a political actor, you're not exactly just a widow anymore.You're in the arena.And I think it's legitimate to criticize it.And look, quite frankly, I'll just say, Erika acted very bizarre in a lot of ways.

And I'm not saying anything more than that.I also will say that this, and you can see this in some of the late interviews in Charlie's life, there was this massive split that was already coming.I mean, this was already after the 12 day war and after the Epstein cover up.There was this, this fight was coming.Charlie was doing everything he could to keep it together and to have him killed in those circumstances.And then I got to say, you know, if you guys want to blame Candace for all this fine, I am not going to.

up to date on her latest theory.And I'm not here to defend what she - It's all bullshit.It's all complete bullshit.Well, I'll say this.I will say this.The director of counterterrorism himself said that there were angles of this investigation that got shot down that should have been looked into.

Now I'm not making any claim other than that.I'm just saying - You're talking about Joe King.Yes.Yes.Yeah.Joe King.

All I'm making is this argument, okay?I'm not making anything beyond this.I'm saying the fact that... the the way that there was this fight between kind of the Israel lobby and Charlie going out that there was this big event where he brought Tucker and Megan and myself and we had this debate and then it's a thing and then you've got him with the text messages saying I might have to turn on Israel and I fear for my life or whatever I'm not saying that's not evidence of anything that you could take to court or prove anything but that is enough fertile ground that I think in today's environment you just go well I guarantee you the conspiracy.

this has done that Erica was somehow involved in her husband's murder.

I'm not defending that.

Dave, Dave, that's not even the sequence of events that happened.

He didn't send out any text message that he was concerned Israel was going to kill him.He was concerned leftists were going to kill him.And guess what?

Well, wasn't it vague?Wasn't it pretty vague about what he was saying?

I thought it was in the context of him saying, I thought it was in the context of him.on this and that's totally fair.You're going to stick with the claims that you feel comfortable with.I'm fine with that.

What I'm saying is that it doesn't, what doesn't add up to me, man, is like, look, if there's a Patsy, this guy shouldn't be alive and standing trial right now.And so if we're going to a trial, then let's sit here and let this trial play out and get as much information as we can from it.And like, I, I, I certainly, I don't know.I don't know.I guess I would just say I never see it as being my role to go around and, like, hall monitor the other dissidents about who's being too much of a conspiracy theorist.At the same time, I was publicly saying, the second after he got killed, don't jump to conclusions and blame Israel and all this stuff, because you don't have a case.

But Dave, there's a difference if you're using something like this as a wedge issue in order to split party politics, especially when you're coming into midterms, things like this, for people who are involved in politics.But who's to say that's our motivation?Hang on, hang on, hang on.Hang on, for people who are involved in politics like me, that is actually very important that this be addressed because it becomes a divisive issue within our own party and politics.Now, Joe, for instance, she has the same type of problem.It's just in a different direction where she has communists who are building up out east and her party's going to have to deal with that, right?

So there's internal struggles regardless of the parties that you're working within the left -right paradigm, which is currently the American paradigm.

If I can pick up on that, I just want to end with what I've been promising viewers the whole show, which is Joe and your little message to me on X, because I posted this after the UFC event at the White House.I said I thought the UFC event at the White House was great.Very different, very entertaining.Congrats to Dana White and Donald Trump.And to my liberal friends shrieking in faux outrage about it, I simply say this.Pick your battles with Trump.

This ain't a hill to hysterically die on." I don't think that was an unreasonable comment.I thought this was probably pretty accurate.There was no real harm done by the UFC spectacle.Most people who watched it enjoyed it.I feel like the UFC particularly enjoyed it.

But your response, Jojo, I have to say left a little to be desired.Your full response to me on the public platform of X was, fuck off, Piers.No, I'm just giving you...I'd like to give you a final opportunity to maybe withdraw that tweet.

Short and sweet.I stand by my words, my friend.Look, I'm old enough to remember when you told me to pipe down on your show and then you took to that same platform to tell your audience that I was forever banned, forever banned from your show until and unless, and I quote, I learned to behave myself.Right.Piers, I think I've been on your show...

Quite clearly, I have failed in my own yardstick here.

And that's not counting the 10 times I said I couldn't do your show after that because I thought he said I was banned and told me to learn to behave and yet I came back Because I wanted to give you another chance Well me telling you to fuck off when I disagree with you on the app you told me I was I was forever banned on Feels like justice my friend.

Well, you do seem to be behaving better.

She does Because what you are behaving, I would say your behavior has been 35 % better than it normally is.

It's progress.On this particular panel.So I don't I don't even I have no horse in the Candace Owens fight.I'm just watching these guys duke it out.You know, look, I'm just sitting back watching because it's it's kind of like I need some popcorn.But I would hardly say that I've ever been badly behaved because I have convictions and because I believe in what I have to say.

But yeah.I stand by saying fuck off about the bread and circuses of that ridiculous event.Thank you very much indeed.

I kind of admire people who stand by their guns even when their guns are revolting.Thank you to my panel, excellent debate.I really appreciate it.Thank you all very much.Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent.The only boss around here is me.

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