‘What a CROCK of S***!’ Piers Morgan vs Nick Fuentes | Full interview

The Euronew York Times reader, an NPR fan, a Daily Wire subscriber, or an avid consumer of all things Tucker Carlson. For several months now, there's been no avoiding the subject of Nick Fuentes. And let's be clear, the main reason you're hearing about him is because he's popular. A large number of people, especially young men,

are interested in what he has to say. What that says about our society and our culture is the subject of ferocious debate. For many people, it's a grave indictment of an insidious immorality. For others, he's a product of a culture

which has turned on its own and left many young people feeling listless and bitter. He's either a litmus test for right-wing hypocrisy on free speech or a walking, talking manifestation of where the line should be drawn. And a frankly preposterous amount of airtime has been spent on debating everything from his ideology to his sexuality and whether anyone should actually talk to him at all.

If I were writing a glossary entry on the Streisand effect, I wouldn't put a picture of her next to it. I would put a picture of Nick Fuentes.

They have opted to not do so when it comes to Nazis like Nick Fuentes.

Fuentes takes this guy apart brick by brick. It's a full takedown.

My concern is that people who are a bit more moderate are deeply alarmed by Nick Fuentes.

I was very happy to see that like Nick Fuentes really passed that test with flying colors. That fragmentation is being caused purposefully by a splinter faction of people led by a young man named Nick Fuentes.

That's the war. Can you get the beef prices down? Not crazy things that Nick Fuentes or these other loons say on social media.

Well, it looks like all the screaming about Nick Fuentes on the internet

is finally dying down a little bit.

So now we had on this guy, this Fuentes guy, and never challenged him.

You should have Nick Fuentes on your show and you could ask him questions about that.

The truth is it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend all this time talking about Nick Fuentes but not actually to Nick Fuentes. People who say you shouldn't give him a platform overlook the very obvious fact that he already has a platform of his own, which is often bigger than most of the people complaining, and he uses it to speak unchallenged to as many followers. It's on that basis that I've invited him to appear live and uncensored on my platform, and Nick Fuentes joins me now. Nick Fuentes, welcome to Uncensored.

Hi, great to be with you. I don't know you. I don't think we've ever met. You can correct me if that's wrong. I know about you. I know that increasingly people are talking about you in a more mainstream environment than you may be used to.

So for those of you who know nothing about Nick Fuentes, I want this to be an opportunity to get to the real person. I don't know who that person is, but I do want to use this opportunity to get there. I've seen you talk, as we prepared for this, in exchanges with people and on your show,

saying you fear it's going to be very hostile, it's going to be an ambush, all those kind of things. I don't intend it to be overtly hostile, I don't intend to ambush you, I intend it to be an examination of what you said on the record, an examination of what you believe or what you say you believe, and an examination of what your rising popularity says about the state of the conservative movement in America. So those are my goals from this interview. What are your goals?

Why are you doing it?

I thought it'd be interesting. And you've talked a lot about me on your show over the years, and this is the first time you actually extended the invitation. I think it might be the second, actually.

I think we talked about doing it during YAY24 a few years ago, but you've talked a lot about me with the panel and now you've extended the invitation to talk to me and I think it'd be interesting for me to maybe clarify some positions and maybe get to know you a little better as well. So I'm looking forward to it.

There is a belief that you have two personas. There's one that you roll out now for podcasts and for shows like mine, where you come across as reasonable. And then there's your show on Rumble, where you often come across as having, you know, a very unreasonable view on things. This is what Colman Hughes said about you.

Nick Fuentes knows exactly what he's doing. He is consciously playing this double game as part of a long-term strategy to become popular enough to take the reins of power, at which point he plans to pivot towards the extreme and unpopular policies that he advocates daily on Rumble.

So, first of all, what is your response to that?

Well, first of all, I would say that Coleman Hughes is a propagandist. He works for the Free Press, which is run by Barry Weiss. So I think that's, you have to consider the source. And Barry Weiss is a pro-Israel partisan. Free Press is just bought out by CBS for $150 million by Larry Ellison or his son, David Ellison.

And so I think that's coming from a particular point of view. We can't pretend like that's coming from a vacuum or from some fixed position. That's coming from a propaganda outlet that's in favor of Israel. That's first. But second, I would say he is right about the two personas. And I think that everybody understands this on some level.

On my show, I make jokes and I use rhetoric and I'm hyperbolic because for a long time I had an audience that was small on these like dissident platforms. I was on D Live for many years. A lot of people don't even know what that is.

And so I had a small following and we had sort of like an in-group sense of humor and memes and things like that. And you talk about it one way on a freewheeling live stream when I'm by myself and I'm ranting and we make jokes and we play devil's advocate,

we play with different positions. But then when you sit down in an interview like this one and people ask me a good faith question, what do you actually believe? Well then I clarify and I say, well, here I'm not joking here. I'm not being hyperbolic. I'm not being rhetorical.

I'll tell you precisely what I believe. As far as this idea that I'm going to get power and then turn into Hitler, that just sounds totally insane to me. I'll be honest, it just sounds insane.

Do you have aspirations for political power?

Not really. I think that if I wanted to run for office, I wouldn't say a lot of the things that I say. I don't know that a lot of people would vote for me. I tend to offend everybody, even a lot of people that like me. So no, I'm a truth teller.

I like to tell the truth. I like to do my live stream.

Who is Nick Fuentes? Tell me about your upbringing. I know you grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. Tell me about your early years.

Early how?

Like my childhood or a little bit later? Yeah, your childhood, yeah. Well, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago in LaGrange Park, as you say. My parents are ethnics. You know, my father's half Mexican, half Irish.

My mother's Italian. And they both came from a pretty rough upbringing themselves. They both were raised by single mothers, not because of divorce, but because both of their fathers had died. They endured a lot of dysfunction. And I think that's one of the reasons they came together

and they related to each other and they wanted to create a normal upbringing for their children. They wanted to have a normal family life. And so they moved out to LaGrange Park away from the city and they raised me and my sister and really put us first.

I think that's a big reason why I tend to have a lot of these family values or Christian values. My mother quit her job and stayed at home to raise us. And so I have very close relationship with my parents, with my sister. We're a very tight family. And we grew up in a pretty idyllic town.

And maybe we can sort of get into a conversation about politics from this. I loved my upbringing. My mom stayed at home. My dad was working. We're in a mostly white suburb in Chicago. Everybody was, I was maybe half Catholic, half Protestant. It was a baseball town. I played baseball for many years. In Chicago, we love our hot dogs. We have our baseball parade and get a hot dog. And so I love where I came from.

I love the city. It's a working class city. I love the people here. They're very good, humble, down to earth, decent people. And I guess I had my political, not to jump ahead, but this is a big part of where my political awakening

came from. I sort of left this bubble, if you could call it that. When I went to college in 2016, I went to Boston University and I read a lot of things online and I realized the country does not look like LaGrange Park. It doesn't look like Western Springs or Hinsdale or Elmhurst.

It looks very different. The country's undergoing a radical transformation because of immigration. And so I saw that and I said, this is not really a desirable change. I don't like the South side of Chicago or the West side or LA or certain parts of Boston as much as I like where

I came from. And I guess that's what made me an American nationalist. I said, I want to preserve my home and the things that are familiar to me and the things I like about my home, what makes it America. So that's a little bit about my background. I don't know where you want to go with that,

but that's kind of where I came from. My first obvious question is, were your parents immigrants to the United States or were their parents or were their grandparents? In other words, at some stage, I presume, there were immigrants in your family who came to the US.

Is that correct?

There were, there were. I believe my mother was fourth generation and my father was third generation. So their ancestors came here on my mom's side in the 1860s, I believe, the first wave of Italian immigration. My father's ancestors, I think they came around at the turn of the century, in 1900.

So your view of immigration, and we'll get to the specifics about the century in 1900. So your view of immigration, and we'll get to the specifics about your views on immigration. Are they not affected at all by the fact that if it wasn't for immigration, you wouldn't exist as an American?

Well, I would certainly exist, but like you said, maybe not as an American. Certainly, certainly that's influenced in some measure. But I think that the kind of immigration that we had for a long time in the country, it's different than the immigration that we have now.

And let's just say for openers, it's different immigrants. They're coming from a different place with a different culture, a different religion. It's not the same as it was. So first you have a qualitative difference. My ancestors, for the most part,

I have three European grandparents from Ireland and Italy, one from Mexico. They came from Europe. They came from a society where there's a common ancestry, there's a common religion, common civilization. The people that have come in since 65, since Hartzeller,

they're coming from China, India, the Northern Triangle, Mexico, Venezuela. And so first, they're just different people. Secondly, it's a quantitative difference. There's way more. And it's an unceasing, always increasing wave

for the first three or four ways of immigration. You would have a major influx of immigrants and then it would stop and they'd have another wave and then it would stop. This one, it just keeps going up for 35 years and it's too many. So that's really where I would draw the distinction

between maybe where I originate from. I would even just simply call that immigration. What this is, is an invasion. It's a completely different policy.

You can't even call it the same thing. But you mentioned Mexico in that list. And your father is half Mexican. So by your criteria, part of the invasion would include your father, presumably, and his immediate descendants who came from Mexico.

Not really true, because when my father's ancestors came here, it was a small fraction of the total immigrants that came from Mexico. I don't believe that we should have zero immigrants forever or even zero immigrants from non-white countries. But you have to draw the distinction.

My father's father, he was here in the 40s and 50s. It was his parents, or I believe either his parents or grandparents that came here even earlier. Up until 1965, 90% of the immigrants were coming from Europe. I have no problem with that.

If we have 10% of them coming from Mexico or Latin America, maybe that's reasonable, but that's not what it is now. Now you've got 10 million illegals in four years under Joe Biden, and you got millions more legal immigrants from China, India, Venezuela, El Salvador, and it's so many with no break for assimilation, and they're all from non-white

countries. It's transforming what America is. And again, that's the distinction. That's what

makes it unacceptable. I always believe everybody is a product of their environment. I've interviewed thousands of people. I mean, maybe 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 people from all different walks of life. But the one common theme I would say is everyone's a product of their environment. And I was reading some stuff about you in the last few days.

There was an episode of your podcast where you talked about your father, Bill Fuentes, and how he wouldn't take the family, including you, to certain restaurants because he believed they were associated with African-Americans. We would be deciding where to go to eat, you said.

What are we going to do for dinner tonight? It was a running joke. Me and my sister would say Applebee's, and my dad would say we would never eat at Applebee's. Not in a million years should you be caught dead, Fuentes said about Applebee's.

Go to a different restaurant, a local restaurant. No Applebee's, no red lobster. That is commonly known as black fare. And you also shared another story about your family and restaurants. Said, before me and my sister were born,

my family had a saying about Olive Garden that contains the N word that we're not allowed to say. So my question, based on that anecdote that you say on your own podcast, is do you think you grew up in a racist environment? That your father was inherently racist and that that thought process moved to you?

Well, I would say it's a new low. I've been attacked for being a racist many times but to attack my father, to attack my parents based on anecdotes I would say that's... Hang on, it's your anecdote. Yeah but he's not here to defend himself. You are. And my parents aren't. You told the story. And I will, and I'll defend them. I'm not trying to ambush you. As I said at the start, Nick, to be clear. No, it's not an ambush, but I think everybody understands.

I'm not ambushing you. I'm literally reading an anecdote that you revealed on your podcast. It's you that's put it in the public domain. I'm simply asking you whether my assessment of that, which is that your father didn't want to take you to certain restaurants because of what you refer to as they were commonly known as black fare. Whether that attitude to African Americans in that instance permeated to you. It's a reasonable question.

Yeah, no, like I said, I think everybody knows what that is, but I'll address it. I'll engage with it and I'll defend my father from the charge of racism. Sure. No, my parents, my parents are not racist and they've never been racist. I'll tell you about my parents.

They used to have a school in Chicago in the South Loop where they instructed people on how to shoot firearms. It was a security school. And most of the clients were black. And I believe actually one of their clients was Larry Hoover's son at one point,

sort of a funny story. And so most of their clients would come in from the South side of Chicago. My grandmother, she grew up in the projects in the city. And so my family being in Chicago, being ethnics, being Italian, Irish, Mexican,

and the West side on Taylor Street, all over the city. My family for many generations have lived near and around black people. And look, my views about black people and their views about black people are shaped with experiences with black people. And what they will tell you, what my parents would say if they were here, is that for many,

many years, the older generations of black people were very respectful, very humble, very decent. In fact, my grandma used to have an anecdote. She grew up in a lot of dysfunction. Her mother was mentally ill and they would be having dinner in the projects and there'd be so much chaos and dysfunction

and disagreement and fighting. And she would look across the way out the window at a black family in the other apartment and they'd be holding hands around the table saying grace. And this is sort of the culture that used to prevail. But now what you have in the city

is that there's no accountability for the black people. And now Chicago has become a complete dump because these teenagers go out and they take over the city. They call them teen takeovers. That's the euphemism for it, they're teenagers. But they all come from the same neighborhood.

They drive up there and they mug people and attack people and they destroy cars and destroy shops. We had the Festival of Lights a couple of weeks ago. It's supposed to be a family event and they light up the trees and they, you know, there's a big parade.

I was in the parade one year and you had a bunch of black people there shooting each other. Seven people shot a 14 year old killed in the Magnificent Mile. And I know there's a lot of black people that feel the same way about this. They say we've lost control of the city and we're looking for accountability. We have a lot of black people that are always outraged about racism,

outraged about attitudes from white people, but they're never ashamed of some of these behaviors, never ashamed of some of the things that go on. And that's why I think there's a lot of negative attitudes these days. And so, you know, again, I think those attitudes, you say I'm a product of my environment, I am.

And so are my parents and my grandparents, unlike you, because you're not even American, in Chicago, we have to live in a big, diverse city where there's a lot of different kinds of people. And I think anybody in Chicago would tell you the same.

I live in London. It's one of the most, one of the biggest and most diverse cities in the world.

But it's not the same.

Well, actually, it's a big, diverse city. The only difference is we don't have the gun violence because we don't have the gun violence because we don't have guns. That's a whole different story. I don't want to get into that with you. I have got into that before.

You got a knife problem. You got sword problems.

We have problems with-

You have Aladdin.

We have problems with violent crime. I make no pretense of it. So the idea that somehow I'm cosseted in London because I'm not in Chicago- I didn't say that. I guess my point about the environment, I'm not saying you are a product of your environment. I'm saying most people are in some capacity. When I read that anecdote, which just to remind you, it's not something I have put out there. You told this story, right? And you said that-

You said this, we're looping. You said this already.

You haven't really directly, I think, responded to it, which is whether your father would not take you to certain restaurant chains because he associated them with black Americans. Is that true?

Well, see here, if you're in America, you would say that Olive Garden is not real Italian food. Applebee's, TGI Fridays, this stuff is a load of crap. My dad was just a food stop, but no, it's got nothing to do with that. My best friend in first grade was a black guy.

We're not a racist family, so.

Okay, so when you told the story, I'm just curious. So when you told that anecdote, which clearly on the face of it is racist, right? You're basically saying your father made racist decisions about where you would go as a family to eat. Are you saying, well, I'm just gonna ask you a question. Are you saying that when you told that story,

you didn't mean to infer that he was racist? And do you understand why when somebody like me reads that anecdote for the first time, as I did this week, I reach a different conclusion?

Well, I understand what you're doing, which is a sort of making of a murderer. How did he become racist? Well, his father didn't eat an olive garden because he said that's not real Italian food. Hang on.

What's with the interruptions?

Can I explain?

I'm literally reminding you of something you said on your show, which led me to conclude a certain thing.

If I'm wrong, tell me. Yeah, it was said in jest as a humorous anecdote, and now you're trying to spin it into a narrative, which is his parents are racist. He comes from a long line of racists. And I think everybody knows our parents, my parents are boomers. And these people, well, you're a boomer, I guess, too.

And in a way, right? I'm 60. You were born in what, 19? I'm 60. So you're a boomer also, or maybe you're a Gen Xer. I suppose it's sort of on the cusp, but it's a humorous anecdote. These are kind of the attitudes of baby boomers in society, but you're trying to spin it into a narrative, which is you're a product of your environment. Your dad's racist because of this joke.

Now you're a racist. And I don't think that's a fair characterization.

Okay, people can make their own minds up. They can go back and listen to you say it. I mean, the beauty of what I'm going to talk to you about in this interview is that almost all of it is just going to be reminding you what you have said and asking you what you meant. Your position about that story is that it was a joke. OK, I want to come to something else you said. This is where you talk about Jews, women and blacks. Take a listen.

They're always coming up with, no, it's not the Jews. No, it's not women. No, it's not blacks. It's actually really complicated. No, it fucking isn't at all. Jews are running society.

Women need to shut the fuck up. Blacks need to be imprisoned for the most part, and we would live in paradise.

It's that simple.

OK. Would you like to clarify what you meant there?

That's all true. That's 100% true. Everything I said in that clip is true.

Including that blacks need to be imprisoned for the most part? Yeah, yes. But all of them? No, for the most part. What does the most part mean? What percentage of

American blacks would you like to see in prison? Whatever the percentages of the murderers. I think it's one in 20 black men will commit a murder in their lifetime. So maybe let's say that 5%.

Oh, so you're talking about black people who murder people.

Yeah, oh, absolutely, yeah.

But you didn't say that. You just said blacks need to be imprisoned for the most part. You didn't clarify, you were talking about black murderers.

Right, right. No, you're right. That's a good addition to that. That's a great point. Do you think it's funny?

Or?

Yeah, I do. I think it's hilarious. I think it's totally true.

Do you think a black American would find it funny? You think that blacks should be imprisoned for the most part?

Blacks are my biggest fans. I get high fives all the time. They say, Nick Fuentes, I love your show. They agree with me, and you want to know why? Here's the difference. Black people are the most victimized by other black people. You think black people want to live in the hood and the ghetto and get shot all the time?

That's what happens in the South side of Chicago. You should come here, I'll take you there. We could go to Garfield Park.

My son went to Chicago University for a year, actually, several years ago.

Yeah, that's a bubble. That's a bubble. You think you're in Chicago and Hyde Park? You don't know Chicago. Go a little bit west, see what it's like over there. And I'll tell you, black people agree with me because they're tired of it too. And maybe not most of them, but a lot of them agree with what I say about that

because they know how it is. That's why the first thing they do when they make a little bit of money Let's remind me again, the percentage of black men who commit murder in America, what was

the percentage you gave me?

It's one in 20. One in 20.

It's one in 100.

No, it's one in 20.

No, no.

Less than one in 100 black US men commit murder. That's the most up-to-date crime statistics in America.

That's not true. I've seen other statistics. They say one in 20 will eventually commit a murder. I have.

So your rate means that, you're saying that five times as many black men commit murder as the official crime statistics say?

Yeah, there's a report, I believe on X by Data Hazard. I'll have to go and double check that for you. But yes, there's some pretty shocking evidence that says that it's far more alarming than you would think.

Okay, but you would accept that the official crime statistics are one in a hundred or you wouldn't accept that statistic?

I don't know, I don't have it in front of me, but I've seen other evidence. Like I said, data hazard on X, I believe produced a report about a year ago, it said one in 20. But I mean, whether it's one problem. Sure, a lot of white people commit murder too. Well, they do, don't they?

Okay, but it's about proportionality. I mean, white people are 65% of the population. Blacks are 13%. And I think anybody would tell you that more black people proportionally commit violent crime than white people.

And people vote with their feet. People would rather pay a much higher property tax. Most mass shootings. What's with the interruptions?

I'm sorry.

Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, you look at in Chicago, in New York, these neighborhoods are so stratified. People would rather pay a high tax rate. They'd rather pay a much higher property value to live in a less diverse, less black neighborhood because they don't want to live around the violence. And I think that when you look at even on the public transit, the subway, the blue line, you know, people don't want to go there because they know who occupies and menaces the public transit.

It is these people like Daniel Penny had to deal with. It's people like Irina Zerutskaya had to deal with. And and that's just the uncomfortable reality.

You've also said you don't want to live near black people. Let's take a

listen to this clip. I'm a new generation of white person. I'm not living around blacks. Sorry. You know I want white kids and I don't want my white kids bringing home black people to marry. It's racial for me. And call me racist? Oh, very Christian of you. I don't give a fuck.

I mean, it couldn't be clearer, really, unless you want to say that's another of your jokes. But you're basically saying, yeah, I'm a racist, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah, I'm fine with that.

You're fine with saying you're a racist?

Totally. I think everybody's racist. I think everybody, if we're being honest, is racist. I think everybody, the only people that aren't racist or pretend not to be are white people to their detriment. Everybody else is racist.

But you spent, early in the interview, you went, really got aggrieved at the idea that your father was a racist. You wanted to make emphatically sure. Yeah, because my father's.

He's not.

Because my father doesn't share my same views on that.

So he's the exception to the everyone's a racist.

Well, everybody's a little bit racist. You're right. So maybe everybody, the difference is you're attacking my father, you know, he can get fired from his job.

I'm not. I don't know your father. And to be clear, I have no knowledge about him at all.

Other. Well, then let's leave him out of it. Let's leave him out of it.

If you don't hang on, Nick, you put that story into the public domain on your show. I'm simply reminding you of what you told everybody, millions of people about your father. If you now want to retract it, fine. If you want to say it was a joke, which is what your position was earlier, fine. But I'm allowed to put to you things you've said publicly. That's not unfair. That's not me targeting your father.

You put that story about him out there.

You know what you're doing. You know what you're doing.

Yeah, I'm asking you about a pretty shocking anecdote, which to me looked like you were saying your father made decisions about where you as a family would eat based on skin color of people who worked at these places. If you say or use them, if you say that is not what you meant, that's fine. You can respond any way you like.

But the idea I can't ask you about it without you saying I'm attacking your father is ridiculous.

Well, you are and you know what you're doing. And there's a political culture in America where if you have the wrong views, you get fired from your job. And my father has a job. And if you go on here and say,

you charge him with racism or something, and I'm put in a position where I don't look like I'm sticking to my guns, if I don't say my father's a racist, you're putting him in jeopardy and he's not here to defend himself or explain his views. And it's very low and I think you know exactly what you're doing and people can see what you're doing. I'll defend my views and I think that, you know, so let's leave him out of it. Let's just not talk about my father because my father isn't here.

I'm here. I'll defend my shouldn't. And I'll just say, no, that's fine. But then do you accept you shouldn't talk about your father on your show and you shouldn't tell? Absolutely not. Absolutely. So it's fine for you to put a story out there which would make most people who listen to that story or watched it at the time on your show conclude that he was racist. It's fine for you to do that. But if I then ask you about it, I'm the one who's being unfair and I've crossed a line.

Is that what you're saying?

Yes. Yes. You're being malicious.

OK, that's fine. That's fine. Listen, people are watching this live. They can draw their own conclusions about whether what I just did.

And they will.

I'm sure afterwards, by the way, you'll say he ambushed me with your own not with your own words.

That's a little presumptuous. I'm not going to say it's an ambush, but I think that's a low blow. And I think you know what you're doing. And that's fine. You're a tabloid journalist. I expected that.

I don't think it's an ambush because I knew it would be like this. And people will see what you're doing. And I think they'll say it's low. But as far as you want to talk about racism, I do. Let's talk about racism. Let me let me play.

Look, you've admitted you're a racist, correct?

Yes. OK, percent.

OK, own it. OK, that's fine. You're perfectly entitled in a free democratic society to stare down the barrel of his camera and tell me you're a racist. People can judge you accordingly. Many people who have assumed that you're a racist will now have heard it from your own lips.

That's fine.

There you go. That's the point of this interview is to go over the things you've said, which have led people to reach conclusions about you and to ascertain whether those conclusions are fair and reasonable or not.

That's it. So I wanna play you another clip. This is where you talk about why white people are justified in being racist. Let's take a listen to this.

First, white people are every single bit justified in being racist. Every single bit justified to the extent that that means going out of your way to avoid black people when you see them. Can you stand by that? Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. So white people should go out of their way to avoid black people when they see them? Absolutely, they would be wise. Why? Because it's a lose-lose proposition. If you're Irina Zyrutska and you don't walk the other way, you get stabbed to death and

you die. If you're somebody else and you walk on the subway and you stand near a black person or something, maybe it's fine. It's a lose-lose proposition. So no, I think that white people, I think that white people have been beaten into submission

that we're afraid to tell the truth about it. And the truth is that when you go into these major cities like New York or Chicago, I believe she was in North Carolina, there is a menace, which is young, black, adolescent men. They're extremely violent.

And we have been told that we have to pretend like they are every other person. We have to be colorblind to that. And we're supposed to go and be in the midst of all this danger. And I think that at this point, it's gotten out of control. You look at the BLM movement. They said that the reason that black people are violent or the reason there's crime is because of police brutality. A red lining or all these other things.

They said, we need to get rid of the police. We need to defund them. And a lot of cities did. A lot of cities like Chicago, for example, the police changed the rules of engagement. They don't chase them.

It's not a felony if you steal a certain amount of merchandise, they won't chase them on foot. And now the city's totally up for grabs. And now whether you're in the Gold Coast or whether you're on the Mag Mile or you're in the worst neighborhoods in the city, you might get shot, you might get mugged, someone might run up on you.

And I tell my followers, it is better to be perceived as racist or racist and walk the other way and maybe keep your life than to say, I'm a good anti-racist. I don't mind that this person's making me uncomfortable. Maybe he's looking a little froggy. I'm gonna sit down because I'm a good person

and get stabbed, mugged, whatever. And by the way, this is a strategy. They call it the friendly stranger. There's a crew of them. They do this in Chicago. They stand outside bars, black people.

They approach strangers, it's a robbery crew, and they pretend to be a friendly stranger and then they mug them. And stupid white people say, oh, hi, yeah, nice to meet you. You know, they grin, they laugh, they put up with the nonsense and then they get mugged or worse. Sometimes they get executed. And so as a white person. How do you feel about mass shootings at school?

I think they're bad. Who do you think commits the vast majority of the mass shootings?

I'm sure it's white people.

Right. So how do you feel about that?

I think that white people do more anti-social violence. I think black people participate in more gang violence. I think that's the difference.

What's the difference to the victims?

There's no difference to the victim, but it's a different kind of crime and it's a different proportion also. Do you know what percentage of white people are school shooters?

I know that the vast majority of mass shootings in schools in America this century were perpetrated by young white men.

And I'm just- And what proportion of, what proportion?

I'm curious, I'm curious. What proportion? I'm curious, I'm curious. I'm curious whether your advice would be to people who have kids in these schools.

Wait, is my mic working?

Should they, should they, should they, should they avoid, should they avoid white people at school? Should people with the kids at school avoid young white men at school? No. Okay.

Do you know what per capita means? Do you know proportionality? with the kids at school avoid young white men at school? No. Okay. Do you know what per capita means? Do you know proportionality? There are more black people proportionally that engage in violent crime or are involved in gangs, especially in these major cities

than there are white people that are school shooters compared to the entire white population and everybody understands that.

Two thirds of mass shootings at school perpetrated by white people.

But what proportion of white men commit school shootings?

That's the question.

I've just told you, it's 60 to 65% of school shootings

by white people. You're telling me what proportion of school shootings are committed by white people. I'm saying what proportion of white people have committed school shootings. Are you playing dumb or are you just not that smart?

What's the difference?

What's the difference to the children lying dead on the ground?

Oh, see, now you want to jump on the victims. The difference is you're asking, would you fear white people or black people? And that's the difference.

The difference is in terms of probability. No, no, what I'm saying to you is, by your logic, if we now have agreed that the vast majority of mass shootings in schools are committed by white people and predominantly young white men, then presumably your advice would be to avoid young white men because they perpetrate these massacres. But it won't be because they're white, right?

So are you playing dumb or are you actually dumb? Maybe I'm dumb. It's about proportionality. Maybe I'm dumb. You are because you're, well, I don so are you playing dumb or are you actually dumb? Maybe I'm not a portionality. You are you are because you're well, I don't think you are dumb. I think you're smart, actually, but you're deliberately avoiding per

capita. And everybody knows that's the difference. What proportion of white men are school shooters? It's probably point zero zero zero zero zero one percent.

What proportion of black men have committed violent crimes? It's probably like 5%. I guess I don't know what it is off top my head, but it's very high. And I would add to that, even as it concerns schools, why do you think parents pay a super high property tax to live in a school district where there's white people? Because they know that if they go to the black school, it's going to be the bloods in the cryptsps, it's gonna be gangs, it's gonna be,

you know, you talk about school shootings, nobody talks about all the school shootings that are committed by gangbangers in and around the school and all the other violence that's associated with that. I mean, these schools in the South side of Chicago, you know, it's just not-

I have an answer for you, Nick. So the proportion of the population who carry out mass shootings is actually the same.

For black and white, for white people, the proportion of not the proportion of the population. Are you hearing it? No, no.

I think the problem with your statistics is a lot of them don't bear much scrutiny. We have a bunch of fact checkers checking all this in real time because you do have a tendency to just come out with a little baloney. And when you say, you know, OK, well, it's true.

And when you're confronted with what you're confronted with, you don't like it. What's the figure? What proportion of white people have committed school shootings with white people as the denominator and white people that have committed school shootings as the numerator, what's that percentage?

For both black and whites, the proportion of the population who carry out mass shootings generally is about the same.

No, no, tell me the number and then, and then what is-

And yet the only focus of your attention is the black shootings, the black crime.

You don't want interracial marriages or relationships that may produce black people. And yet, when I point out to you that there are many parts of crime in America where actually there's a majority of white people that perpetrate them, you don't care.

You don't have any interest in them. It doesn't exercise your mind. Maybe because you don't have kids. No one's buying this.

This argument lost. No one is buying this. Everybody understands per capita. And people could even see what you're, you race ahead and say, well, we're comparing the proportion

of white and black school shooters, I said, no, no, compare the proportion of school shooters that are white versus violent criminals that are black, because that was the basis of the monologue, is that you're very likely if you encounter black people or a young black man in the city, that you're gonna be the victim of a violent crime, of a robbery, a mugging, a car theft,

a carjacking, or a murder. That's the difference, and it's about proportionality. And everybody sees past that because we all live in reality. You want to talk about product of your environment, people that live in New York, Chicago, LA, we live in reality, we live in this environment and we see what it's like.

And the threat, the danger in terms of probability is not, it's not even comparable. And I would add, I would say this to your point, if you're in a high school and you, and truly, if you see a white person who looks like a little autistic, he's got the SSRI stare and he reaches for a backpack, people joke and say, run. Similarly, if you see a jalopy pulling up with a bunch of black people in it and they

got their pants around the ankles, you're going to run also. And I'm saying the same thing. The difference is the latter happens much more often. It's much more common. You know, in Chicago, there's like 10,000 car jackings and car thefts every day. It's in the thousands. It happens all the time. How many mass shootings committed by autistic SSRI white people, I don't even know. I mean, it's probably in the single digits in the last decade in this city.

That's the difference and everybody knows that, but you're really just trying to carry water for liberal ideology. It's an ideological position.

No, I'm really not. I can absolutely say, yes, there is way too much black crime, for example, involving guns in Chicago. much black on black crime, for example, involving guns and black

and white also.

Yes, but there is way too much gun violence in Chicago. Right. I mean, it's yeah, it's indisputable. I've got no problem saying that the difference is I don't then lead myself into a thought process where I have to avoid all black people in case they shoot me. And you've already conceded that you are a racist.

So when people hear you then say, I don't want to be living anywhere near black people, they already have heard you say I'm a racist. So they assume you're doing that because of people's skin color. I don't think you would probably dispute that, right?

Well, you're separating two different things. The monologue when I said, I don't wanna live around black people, that was after Irina Zyrucka got shot. And it's true. I mean, they are largely in this city in Chicago,

the South side, the West side, huge criminal population. And I don't want to live anywhere near it. And I do, I want to live in a white neighborhood.

I think that that's extremely desirable. And I think even black people- Again, Nick, you're perfectly entitled to that view. But when you have obviously prefaced all this by saying, I am a racist, unashamedly, then people will assume that all your thought processes about all of these issues are driven by an aversion to people based on their skin color, which is the purest personification of racism.

Well, it's not an aversion. I would say it's the opposite. I like my own people. My own people are familiar to me, and I think that's true across the board. I think that people seek out other people that are like themselves. And every other group does this, whether it's blacks, Hispanics, Asians.

You know, I get a lot of attacks when I talk about that I'm against interracial marriage. And what's funny is that every other group is against interracial or interethnic marriage. Jews, Chinese, black people, Hispanics.

But you're the product of an interracial marriage.

Yeah, I mean, that's debatable. Not really.

Let's see for the sake of argument, sure. No, no, you're the product of an interracial marriage and your father is part Mexican. You're literally the very person you've just told me you want to avoid.

What race is Hispanic? Is that a race?

What do you think it is?

I'm asking you, what race is Hispanic?

Hispanic, of course it's a race. It's called Hispanic.

It's a mix between two races. It's a mix between indigenous Americans and Europeans.

It's not white.

Well, apparently you're more of a racial purist than me.

You got like a one drop rule thing going.

Not really, you just keep saying

you only wanna live in a white neighborhood, but you're literally from a mixed race background yourself.

You've literally got Mexican blood. I know, and I live in a non-white neighborhood too. I'm trying to get out of here though, but I'm trying to get out. But here's the thing.

Do you have any non-white friends? Genuine question.

Most of my friends are non-white. Most of my friends are not. And non-white people love my show. How many of your friends are black? Many of them, like at least a dozen. Wow. Yay, yay being one who you know, sneeko being another who you also know.

So how do they feel when you say you just want to be away from any black people, walk away from them?

Well, you know, you know what yay told me, I'll tell you verbatim what he said, that it doesn't come from a place of, and you use the word aversion. That's the first thing I'll tell you verbatim what he said, that it doesn't come from a place of, and you use the word aversion. That's the first thing I'll actually dispute. It's not an aversion on the basis of skin color, because that would seem to suggest it's like a stubborn, irrational bigotry. I don't consider myself a bigot. I consider myself a racial realist. I'm realistic about how the races are, and I speak provocatively about it. And I speak

provocatively about our tribalistic instincts and tendencies as human beings. And I'm not a liberal ideologue that says that over time and with enough education, we're all going to see this great brotherhood where we're colorblind and everybody's the same. You know, I don't think that's ever going away. I think that race is real. It's not just skin deep. It matters to us and it matters to each other. And black people know that and Hispanics know that

and Asians know that. And people like me that have partial Mexican ancestry, we know that too. And I think on that basis, we can have mutual respect and understanding, not aversion based on skin color.

The reason I use the word aversion is you literally said that you should walk the other way if you see black people. That is an aversion to black people based on their skin color.

No, no, no. That's called the economy of information. That's economy of information. That's safety. And I feel, I said in the same monologue, if you watch it, it's like, I feel I said in the same monologue, if you watch it, it's like I feel sorry. The problem is you click the ten seconds.

I don't know if you watch the whole show, but in that monologue, I said most black people are not violent or criminals, I said. And it's unfortunate that we're going to offend them when we turn and walk the other way, I said. But the problem is we don't know. We can't tell. And someone like Irina Zyruska, she sat down in front of a black man

with her headphones in and wasn't paying attention because she was being a good liberal and said, I'm not uncomfortable by this, I'm progressive. Then she got stabbed in the neck. And I said, it's unfortunate that you would have to sit behind the black man to be safe.

And if he's not violent or schizophrenic, he might be offended by that. I said, but I would rather offend him than die.

How many deranged white men have committed atrocious acts of murder in the last 10 years in America?

Proportionally far fewer, far fewer.

How many, do you know how many?

You have a research team, you pull it up.

No, no, you're very big, you're obviously extremely exercised by that one story, which was horrific for the record, absolutely horrific and should never have happened. The person who perpetrated that evil act had a string of previous offenses and should have been picked up more and it should have been amplified more. I completely concur with all of that. But I don't I just suspect you have no idea how many white people have committed

similar crimes, do you? No, because I know it's far fewer from experience, because it's like you said. Well, and hang on. And I would add to that, you know, I read as the roots go wasn't the first one. That was also after Austin Metcalf was killed in Texas. Sure.

After how many times has it been perpetrated by white people?

Well, hang on, let me finish my point. But you're implying that white people don't do this.

And my point to you, Nick Fuentes, is of course, of course,

Oh, I never said white people don't do it.

of course deranged white people commit heinous acts. But you don't either know, No disagreement. or maybe both, maybe you do know, but don't care. You only seem to be focused on black people who commit crimes. And again, if you hadn't prefaced the whole debate about racism by openly conceding you are a racist,

I could read other connotations into what you've been saying. But once you've said, I'm a racist, and then you only talk about black crime, I think people can watch this and they can say, yeah, he is, he's a racist and then you only talk about black crime. I think people can watch this and they can say, yeah, he is, he's a racist.

And everything that he says about crime is driven through the prism of being a racist who judges people according to their skin color.

Well, it's funny because it's quite on the contrary. And I said this in a similar monologue, the problem is not that I wake up and I walk down the street and I said this in a similar monologue, you know, the problem is not that I wake up and I walk down the street and I see someone that doesn't look like me and it makes me angry. The problem is there's a pattern of behavior, which we've all seen. Blacks in America have become narcissistic, and they become narcissistic because they've been told they're

victims of racism, they're victims of slavery. They've been told, really, there's no accountability. If they're rude, if they're inconsiderate, if they're criminal, they are told that they have no agency for their actions. They're being told if if you act in this way, it's because the white man made you that way. It's because the system's rigged against you. And so we have been telling black people this for a generation

and now there's no rules. Now they go, and what we hate to see as decent people, not even as white people, but decent people, even black people too, what we hate to see is rudeness, obnoxiousness, inconsideration, criminality, violence. And that's that pattern of behavior that we see

all over social media, on the body cam footage, on post.

You don't like black people who play the victim and are rude. Is that your position?

I don't like that pattern of behavior.

And you're a narcissist.

I see where this is going.

Yeah, you're ahead of me.

I'm gonna turn this around on me.

You're ahead of me, aren't you?

Because when I said, what black friends have you got? You said, yay. I'm kind of black. Yeah. I know. Not that you say. I'm not saying you. I'm just saying your choice of black friend is yay. Who is arguably the number

one black victim hood narcissist in America. Do you understand the problem? So he's your he's your friend. He's one of the very few black

people you want to be associated with. But he's the epitome of what you just said you abhor about narcissistic black people.

I disagree. I disagree with you. And I'll tell you why. Because yay, if you've ever met him in real life.

I have.

Yeah. OK, well, then, you know, he's nothing but polite, considerate.

He was very rude to me the last two times I interviewed him. He's a supreme narcissist. Well, you keep interrupting me. You're very rude.

Are you black? I apologize. Because you're being very rude by interrupting me right now.

I apologize to you.

I'm giving you a hard time.

But look, I do want to finish my point.

Okay, you're giving me a hard time. I do want to finish my point about Ye. who when I was with him, wanted to make sure that everybody was heard, everybody felt included. He's actually a very soft-spoken guy, very polite. And by the way, not violent. When you look at all the rappers that are in the music game, many of them, especially from Chicago, drill rap,

they're talking about killing people, shooting people, they gang bang. He notably, if you know about him, he got his start because he was a nerd. He wore a backpack and a polo and he wasn't a gangbanger. He rapped about his feelings and girls and his dreams and his ambitions. So no. And by the way, he would tell me all the time he doesn't even feel black. They make him feel not black because he doesn't do those things, because he's soft

spoken, because he's artistic, because he's a bit of a nerd or likes fashion. So I would disagree. He's actually not like that at all. But we're talking about our-

He's also a Hitler loving anti-Semite. And we're gonna take a little commercial break here. And we're gonna come back about and talk about anti-Semitism and your views about Jewish people and indeed what Yeh has said about the same subject matter.

Angel Studios are back with a new must-see documentary. It's called Thank You, Dr. Fauci and you're going to hear a lot more about it over the next few months. Award-winning filmmaker Jenna Furst digs into the origins of Covid-19, a possible bio arms race with China and claims about history's biggest public health cover-up. It's not a right wing film or a left wing film. It's a film about transparency, which is something we should all care about. First pulls over documents and interrogates scientists, intelligence professionals and whistleblowers. It's being described as Oppenheimer meets outbreak. And if you've ever wondered what really happens behind closed doors, you'll want to see it. Angel Studios is powered by its Guild members voting on real stories.

You can find out more at angel.com slash peers. Become a member. Stream Thank You Dr. Fauci and be part of a conversation demanding truth and accountability. OK, back with Nit for Winters, let's just turn to anti-Semitism. In your interview with Stephen Crowder last week, you answered emphatically that you don't hate all Jews. Is that correct? That's your position? Yes. Okay. So I want to play you this clip. Well, I don't hate any Jews. Let

me just amend that. I don't hate any Jews. Okay. Let's play this clip. The reason I've had it is because my opposition to world Jewry and Israel is rooted in absolute uncontestable fact. We have the truth on our side. That's why we're winning, because we are telling the truth about the historical antagonism between Jews and Europeans, between Jews and Christians, the theological, historical, racial, cultural,

and political antagonisms between organized Jewry and the Christians, organized Jewry and Europeans. And the reason that we are winning that argument is because it's real. It's true. I can prove it. I can show you.

I can name the names. I can show you the paper trail, the money. That is why we're winning. That is why all of this is raising the consciousness.

When you say you have this opposition to world Jewry, I mean, it's one thing to criticize, for example, the Israeli government over what it's been doing in Gaza. I've done that myself. When you talk about world Jewry,

I presume you're talking about the 15 million Jews in the world and you are opposed to them. How does that square with your position that you don't hate any

Jews? Well, do you take issue with my use of the term world Jewry? What do you mean by that?

Well, do you take issue with it?

Do you have a problem with that?

Clarify what you mean by it.

Well, it's funny you bring that up. The gas lighting's crazy because I use that expression on my show all the time. I say organized Jewry, world Jewry. And do you know that for like 30 years, the World Jewish Congress has an annual keynote

called the State of World Jewry? Barry Weiss has given it. You can look it up, it's on YouTube. She gives the State of World Jewry address.

But what do you mean by it?

I mean, you have to talk about, there's a concept of Jewish peoplehood. It's the sense that they are part of a common nationality, a common tribe, a common people. And so where they reside in Israel, the United States or Europe or elsewhere,

they see each other above or maybe on a different level alongside their nationality, their state, wherever they reside. If they're in Germany, France, the United States, they see themselves as part of a transnational nation, of an international nation. The Jews in America, the Jews in Israel, they identify as Israeli or American, but they also have something in common. They identify as part of a common nation,

which I would say there's a world Jewish population. It's world Jewry. And world Jewry has representatives. There is such a thing as the World Jewish Congress, where they actually elect, it's democratic. all the local Jewish organizations elect representatives to represent proportionally the Jewish population in their area at the World Jewish Congress. And it's sort of like Davos.

It's like the World Economic Forum, but it's exclusively for members of the Jewish nation that exists across the world. And so that's a real thing. And I didn't make that up. And that didn't come from 4chan. It's like I said in that clip, I read what they write.

I read their books. I watch these speeches. I watch a speech from Barry Weiss. I pay very close attention. So that's what I mean by that. There is such a thing as it's a nation that exists

across borders on a global scale. They're organized and they have a national self-interest as that nation, as that tribe.

So if you don't hate any Jews, what do you like about them?

I like a lot of things about them. I think they're funny. I think they're smart. I think that they're pretty remarkable people. And as Christians, especially as Catholics, we say they're remarkable.

And this has been adjudicated in Catholic doctrine for thousands of years. We say that they're a witness people. And so we actually, you know, there's provisions inside of Catholic doctrine that says we need to give them special protections because they were a witness to Christ's passion. So, you know, this is why you can't clip the show. You have to watch the whole thing. I say this repeatedly in interviews. I do think they're remarkable.

By definition, they're exceptional people. It's just that there is a sort of natural opposition between them and Christians because of the theology. We believe that Christ is the Messiah. They don't. They have been a minority in Christian lands for

thousands of years, and they have been pushed around and expelled, and they've been persecuted and segregated. And that's why there's a lot of paranoia. There's a lot of distrust. There's maybe some sense of chauvinism among Jewish people. So there is, like I said in that clip, there is an historical antagonism between these two peoples, between Christendom and Jewry, and that has always been the case in Europe. But I don't hate them.

And I think I actually sort of understand them in a weird way. I think that because I've studied a lot of their politics, I think I really kind of know them in a way and it doesn't come from a place of hatred. Do you have any Jewish friends? I do, I have many, yes.

Well, that's weird because you said this.

Jews and Christians have never been friends ever. Not since Jesus Christ fought with the Pharisees have we ever been friends. Not since Saul was leading the charge persecuting the Christians. Not since the Roman empire, not since the Middle Ages.

Never, we've never been friends, we've never been allies. We've always been set against each other, actually. And even here in the United States, it was communist Jews who were the architects of both communism and the civil rights laws that are dispossessing white Christians

of their land and civilization.

The Jews and Christians have never been friends ever except for you and your Jewish friends.

Yeah, so easy. As peoples, as peoples, as nations.

Got it.

Not saying every individual Christian. And of course there have been Christians and Jews, there have been Christian converts to Judaism, Jewish converts to Christian. You're nodding your head but you're asking this, I'm saying as peoples, they've never been aligned.

I'm a Catholic like you, and I have many Jewish friends. I'm just trying to compute what you're trying to say, which is Jews and Christians have never been friends ever. And I'm like, well, you have Jewish friends, I have Jewish friends, we're both Catholics,

therefore we're Christians, sort of doesn't really quite add up. Well, like I said, as peoples, there has been an historical antagonism as peoples. And you could even say the same about blacks in the United States. Of course, there were black and white people that were friendly with each other, but in many ways they were set against each other as groups. And I think that's easy enough to understand.

The reason that many people think you're anti-Semitic is that you have regularly downplayed the Holocaust, and in particular, the number of Jewish people who were murdered by the Nazis. It's been said that you believe no more than several hundred thousand have been killed.

And I'm gonna play you this clip.

People talk about, well, what about the gas chambers? Well, to the extent that that's real, I find that hard to believe. But to the extent that's real, there have been atrocities committed and genocides committed in all times and all places. Let's acknowledge why Hitler casts the long shadow. Because that confers a political benefit upon Jews.

That's why. It doesn't really sound correct to me. Wait a second. It takes one hour to cook a batch of cookies and you have 15 ovens probably in four different kitchens, right? Doing 24 hours a day every day for five years. How long would it take you to make six million? Hmm, I don't know. It certainly wouldn't be five years, right? The math doesn't seem to add up there. You think that's funny?

It's funny, it's amusing what you're doing because, you know, that one was a joke. But do you want to talk seriously about the Holocaust? Yeah, I do actually. I mean, I do because I just

find it extraordinary that you would think the Holocaust could ever be something that we could joke about

Why too soon

It's too soon to make jokes how many people do you think died in the Holocaust how many Jewish people

I don't know. I'm thinking maybe 7 million. What's the number? Seven, 6 million, something like that?

So you- 8 million? You concede that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust?

Possibly more. Possibly, you know, we're discovering all the time. So it could maybe even be more than that.

So why have you doubted the numbers in the past?

I'll tell you why. I really think that every death is a tragedy, however many Jewish people died in the Holocaust. And I'm not a World War II historian. So I'm actually open to believing the official narrative and I've read some of the conspiracy theories.

And to tell you the truth, it's a rigorous debate. But you know, what's interesting about this is in many countries, it's not even legal to talk about it. And that's really where my interest in the Holocaust begins and sort of ends, to tell you the truth, is that if you wanted to question the number, you would be put in jail in about, what is it, 17 or 18 European countries.

And I think that's really the more interesting conversation, which is that this is almost like a religious dogma in the West. No other genocide, no other atrocity is treated like this. Could you imagine if in the United

States they said the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza is one hundred thousand? And if you don't say that, you're going to jail. You're banned on X.

You can't have a job. That's the part that's totally insane. And a lot of people, they can't even make up their minds. I think it's actually done a disservice. If your goal, if and I'm not saying you as Piers Morgan, but if your goal, if you're an advocate for awareness about this,

if your goal is to convince everybody that this is the way the Holocaust happened, I think the last thing you'd want to do is say that everyone that disagrees is in jail and is banned and you're not allowed to say it. So there's really been no open debate about the subject since the scholarship started to be produced about 60 years ago.

There is no debate to be had about the number of people who were murdered. Even the Nazis, even the Nazis in the trials after the war confirmed the numbers. The amount of documentation that was recovered, notwithstanding the attempts by the Nazis to destroy it, the amount of documentation that was saved and preserved and used for trials and for historical record is unprecedented in the history of mass slaughter of human beings. So we have a very clear idea of how many people were gassed to death in the gas chambers.

We have a very clear idea of how many were starved to death, were kept in ghettos, died of disease, of forced labor, of death marches. We know how many Jews were slaughtered. It's at least 6 million. What's interesting to me is that you appear to now concede that, which may be news

to a lot of your regular viewers who have constantly heard you quibble with the number of Jews who died in the Holocaust. For the record, just to confirm what I think you told me, you do now accept that at least six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust?

Well no, I said it could be, it could even be higher than that.

Well it could be higher, that is true.

I think it's at least, I think you're right, it is at least, oh it's at least six million. But it could be a hundred times more than that. Okay, but people are going be okay, the people are gonna be. But let me respond to your, let me respond to the rest of your question. What you're saying, I understand where you're coming from when you say it has been documented

and there are confessions and so on. Let that speak for itself. But you don't see, your show is called Piers Morgan Uncensored. But the United Kingdom is censored and Europe is censored. And if you talk about these things, you will be put in jail in many countries.

And I think that's where a lot of people start to say, well, if the truth is so clear and if there's such overwhelming evidence, why do you need to throw people in jail for disagreeing? And you yourself said, well, there is no debate. I think everything is debatable. I think everything at least should be debated. And if the evidence is very one sided, let the evidence speak. Don't throw people in

jail. So do you think that Holocaust denial laws should be overturned?

I don't particularly agree with Holocaust denial laws. I don't think people should be imprisoned because I have a blanket view now, which has evolved slightly actually over the years that I have a blanket view that speech should has evolved slightly actually over the years, that I have a blanket view that speech should not be criminalized. People should be allowed to say what they want to say and they should be then made accountable for what they say.

If you have an employer, they can make a view about whether you are the right kind of person they want for their employment, as they would make a decision about anything else you do in life. So I actually believe that speech should never be criminalized, is my personal view. I understand why in places like Germany they have strong laws about it because they want to move on from what they believe was the most shameful moment in their history.

I understand that. Do I want that in my country? No. Am I appalled by what has been going on with free speech in the United Kingdom in the last two or three years? Absolutely.

It is ridiculous that people have been frog-marched to prison cells for stuff they put on social media. So yeah, I do. I think what is more interesting to me about our exchange is I was not expecting you to go the opposite way. I was not expecting you to be so emphatic

that at least six million Jews died in the Holocaust. And there'll with people watching this, who I think will be very surprised by that, because you have built a reputation for being, if not a Holocaust denier, then somebody constantly questioning in a downward way

the number of Jews who were murdered. That doesn't appear to be what your position is now.

No, and here's what I would like to see for my entire career. When I started my show, it started with a good faith inquiry where I was questioning a lot of these narratives. And I said, what is the answer on the other side? But what I found is that the answer was criminalized.

So when you would talk about anything regarding Jews, Israel, the Holocaust, you could be in favor of the official narrative on those things if you went against, you were banned, censored, and in some countries, jailed. And so I actually haven't made up my mind on that because that's not really a matter of interest to me. And there's a lot of analysis and scholarship on both sides of the issue. And I've read both sides of the issue.

And honestly, unfortunately, it's hard to judge because there has never been. There's never been a debate on it, and there's never been a debate because of the stigma, because of the censorship. And I think that leads a lot of people to say, well, what do they have to hide? Because you can say on your show, well, I'm personally against Holocaust denial laws, yet they still persist and the social consequences still persist. And I think that that is the anomaly

and people have to wonder, okay, why is it that way? And what I said in that clip is the reason the Holocaust casts a long shadow is because it confers a political benefit upon organized Jewry. That is what they always fall back on.

They cannot be criticized, they cannot be named, they cannot be talked about, lest there be another Holocaust. And no other tragedy is treated that way. And no other ethnic group has a get out of jail free card. Just play that anti-Semitism and Holocaust.

You can do whatever you want and defend all your actions. That's the part that people are getting upset with.

That's the problem.

I don't I don't know any right minded person who believes that Jewish people weaponized the Holocaust for their own personal get out of jail free or whatever you called it.

You don't know anyone that does that, that believes that?

I'm sure there are some people that do that. It's such a ridiculous generalization. You know, the truth is that most Jewish people have lost relatives in the Holocaust. In fact, I want to play you. I want to play you two, two clips. One is where you talk about Adolf Hitler.

Hitler was a pedophile and kind of a pagan. It's like, well, he was also really fucking cool. So, you know, time to grow up. We're not children anymore. Am I right? Am I right?

Am I right, boys?

Am I right? Let's go. He was also really fucking cool.

You regret saying that?

Saying a fact? No, no, that's absolutely true.

You think Hitler was very fucking cool?

Yes, I do.

And I'm tired of pretending he's not, to be honest. This is the problem, you see. It's a bit like when you just say, I'm a racist. You're a racist. You think Hitler's cool, but you're not anti-Semitic. If you're a Jewish person watching this,

what are they thinking? I'll tell you what they're thinking, because I've got a friend of mine called Danny Finkelstein, who, when he heard I was interviewing you, he's a Times journalist in the UK, very eminent journalist here, and author, who wrote a book about his own family's experiences

at the hands of Hitler and Stalin, because he also told Tucker Carlson that you admire Stalin. But let's just take what Danny said here.

Hi, peers, it's Danny Winklestein here. As you're interviewing Nick Fuentes, you might try suggesting to him that he reads my book, Hitler, Stalin, Mum and Dad. It's called Two Roads Home in the United States. Since he says he's on Team Hitler, you might like to ask him about the fact that Hitler arrested my mum, tried to starve my mum to death, did starve my grandmother to death, sent my great aunt to the gas chamber, my great uncle, my

cousin. My grandmother on my father's side ended up being one out of seven children, the only one that survived the war. So you might ask him whether he wouldn't rather be on Team Mum rather than Team Hitler. And as for celebrating Stalin's birthday, well Stalin took my my father sent him to a state collective farm sent my grandmother and my to a state collective farm sent my grandfather to the Gulag you might try asking why he doesn't celebrate dad's birthday rather than Stalin's he may all be a big joke

to him but he complains that he was 18 when someone tried to cancel him. Well, Stalin and Hitler arrested my mum and my dad when they were 10 years old. So perhaps he might like to reconsider his joke.

See, that's the reality of your jokes, although I haven't ascertained yet whether you are joking when you say that Hitler was very fucking cool. Are you joking or do you actually think he was very fucking cool? The most genocidal monster of the last hundred and fifty years?

Yeah, the thing is, my generation, we're just done with the pearl clutching, you know,

where you might be, but then your generation hasn't gone through what Danny Finkelstein's family went through So yeah, maybe that maybe the pearl clutching has a way to go for families whose whose family members. Oh my god

Yeah, we we got all that. We you know me mom me mom like we're you know, I don't even know who this person is Why is this person talking to me? This old British guy is saying me mom got killed by Hitler as he doesn't find it funny when you say Hitler's very fucking I don't care I don't care you

don't care that's fine you don't have to care but he does care that guy care

about America does that guy care about me in my country and my family no he

cares what you a prominent conservative in America has to say about Adolf Hitler and what do you mean by Hitler is very fucking cool? Because I think he's very fucking a monster.

And that's a clip. I think he's very fucking a monster. Do you hear yourself? Yeah, I do.

I mean, can we all grow up?

I do.

Can we all grow up?

That is just childish.

He murdered 12 million people. What is very fucking cool about that? Tell me.

The edits, it's just cool. The uniforms, the parades, it's cool as a guy. You look at World War II and it's fascinating and it's interesting and it's compelling and it's cool. And we're just tired of saying these kinds of things. We wanna talk like real people and give our honest opinions.

And then we literally get an old Jewish guy from England who's gonna say, oh, that's very funny, mate, me mom. And it's like, shut up. Like, you know, no one is in favor of genocide. So let's just get that out of the way. We're not in favor of a Holocaust or genocide.

Do you think if half your family- 80 years ago. If half your family had been wiped out by very fucking cool Hitler, you'd still think he was very fucking cool? Or would you think that actually he was a despicable monster who murdered 12 million people, who targeted people because they were disabled or Jewish or Romany gypsy

or whatever it may be, and that he systematically destroyed people, incinerated them in gas chambers. Do you think that you would find it very fucking cool if your family had been through that? Or do you think you would find it very fucking disgusting? And perhaps moderate the number of times you laugh about it or want to joke about it or want to abuse someone like Danny Finkelstein, who's written incredibly powerful books about

what happened to his extended family at the hands of the Nazis and your other hero, Stalin. See, my point to you, Nick Fuentes, is that in parts of this interview, you tried to come across as moderate, but every now and again, the mask slips and it slipped again here with what you say about Hitler. There's nothing very fucking cool about Hitler. We know that from history now.

We know what he did. You've already conceded that he murdered at least six million Jews. So when you say he's very fucking cool, Jewish people watch this and go, this guy is disgusting. Why would he say this about someone

who perpetrated such an evil? And what's the real answer? Why do you? Is it just for clicks? Is it for money? Is it just for fun? For shits and giggles?

What is it? What motivates you to say something like, Hitler was very fucking cool?

It's for this. It's for all of this. And the lack of self-awareness is amazing. You're a boomer. You're a 60 year old boomer. and we've spent maybe three minutes on you saying, he's a really fucking monster, he incinerated people. This, this, and I'm sitting here saying,

it's not that serious, it's not that deep. And what I'm getting at- Not that serious.

Not that serious.

Do you want to say more about he's a monster?

You're not a kid yourself anymore. You're not a teenager. I know. You're nearly 30, to be clear. Yeah. You're not a teenager. I know. You're nearly 30, to be clear. OK?

You're a fully formed adult who has a brain, right? And at some stage, that brain is taking you off these rabbit holes.

Is this an interview or is this a lecture? Can I respond to what you're saying?

I want you to really, I want you to explain why you think it's fine to say how fucking cool Hitler is and to dismiss the very powerful 90 seconds from a British journalist who lost a lot of family members to the Nazis in such a callous, dismissive manner.

I don't think it's powerful. I think we've been hearing that our entire lives, okay? The Schindler's List. Let's just be honest. The propaganda is over the top. We have been brought, in America and everywhere.

What about the Schindler's List? Tell me about the Schindler's List.

I'll tell you about it. We have been browbeaten as a people, as Americans, as Westerners for our entire lives. And you know what this has done? It has taken away any sense of pride, any sense of love for our own civilization. We have been made the villain in our own story. We had been made because, but let's just be clear, it doesn't begin and end with Hitler is a monster. This has been the political narrative, which is why we have thrown open the borders.

This is a political narrative, which is why we're not, we can't be a conservative society as a whole anymore. Why we can't be proud of Europeans. Why we can't be proud of Europeans? Why we can't be proud of being Christian? Because they've told us, if you're too white and too proud and too Christian, it's gonna lead to a Holocaust.

And so my generation, our entire lives- Oh, what a crock of shit.

Wait, wait, wait, no, no. Honestly, Nick Fluentis, what's a crock of- That's why people like me, that's why I'm popular, It's a crock. We don't want to hear anymore about me mom and me dad. What you just said is a crock of shit. And you know, it's called the open society. And in your gut, you know, it is. You weaponize this stuff, you know, you weaponize this stuff for money.

But you know, when you say something like what you just said.

I'm banned from banking and credit cards. You know who you're talking to? I do it for money. And by the way- How much money you make, your company's worth $100 million. Your country, your company's worth $100 million. I was banned from Bank of America. And you shouldn't have been.

I'm banned from processing credit cards. And you shouldn't have been. But I am. So don't tell me I'm doing it for money. Cause you know that full well, and you say it's a grift.

How much money, how much money are you?

If I wanted to be a grifter, I'd be like you. How much money are you making? I'm making a lot of money now. Yeah. Now that I'm the number one live streamer in America, about slavery and the Holocaust and Jim Crow. We're done hearing about that. You guys overplayed your hearing.

I'm not done hearing about that.

Okay, well, you know, your generation's on the way out and Generation Z is coming up and we're finished with that. We're ready to take our country back.

You know, I've got three sons.

We're not listening to crime minorities anymore. I've got three sons and they don't share your views about slavery and about the Holocaust. They can have decency and compassion and humanity about some of the worst things that have happened in the last 150 years or more. They can do that and they can also have concerned views

about issues like immigration and other issues. The two things are not mutually incompatible. You can have different views about different things. It's your lack of humanity and compassion for people about things like the Holocaust, about slavery. It's that that people find so contemptible. And I don't understand why you need to do that.

Again, I just ask you, is your motivation financial? Is your motivation for fun? What is the motivation for saying these outlandish things which you don't need to say, and which I suspect, I don't know, I suspect a lot of it is performative. So what is the motivation?

I'm an iconoclast. The Holocaust is not my religion, and it is treated like a religion. It is treated like a religion with dogma, with blasphemy laws, and that secular religion says, and you say, you say that's a crock of shit.

It's intentional. It's called the open society by Karl Popper. It's by these architects of the liberal order after World War II. They got together and they said, how can we make sure that Hitler never happens? How can we make sure that totalitarianism never happens again? And they came up with the consensus, which is that we need to take down nations, religions,

fathers, the authoritarian personality. We need to be empathetic and altruistic. We need to be diverse and pluralistic. And that experiment isn't working. And I'll tell you the truth right now. And you can laugh at this.

You can scoff at this. Our people are being genocided in our country. 50% of the live births in the United Kingdom and in the United States are non white in a 100 years my ancestors, your ancestors, your kids who are so empathetic and compassionate they're going to be a minority they're going to be a minority and maybe a Muslim country in Indian

country and Hispanic country and these Jewish people that are a 100 years old talking about my grandparents and the Holocaust. They don't care about that. Actually they like to see it at the SPLC. They're literally counting down the days until whites are a minority in America.

So forgive me if I don't believe them when they talk about compassion. There's a genocide going on right now. It's not against the Jews.

How many Christians are there?

Gaza?

It's against whites. How many Christians are there in the world? Let me...

One point some billion. Two billion.

I don't know.

How many Jews are there?

Fifteen million.

Okay. So, with a straight face, you're going to tell me the world is being overrun by the Jewry, by 15 million people, when there are over a billion Christians. There is a genocide of Christians like poor old Nick Fuentes going on at the hands of these 15 million Jews.

Really?

See this attitude is why you're losing. When you say poor old white people. Who am I losing to?

These poor old white people.

Who am I losing to? You're seeing it. Mass migration. Matt, oh, you're losing to me. We are losing as a civilization to mass migration. And here's the difference. In Israel,

they have my politics. In Israel, they want to maintain a Jewish majority. If they had it their way, it would only be Jewish people. They're fighting like hell so that Jewish people can have as much territory, a Jewish state, they can be proudly Jewish in their own land. Whereas in America, we are being besieged by 10 million illegal immigrants in four years. And then whites and Christians are going to be the minority.

And that's true in Canada, Australia, all the countries in Europe. So you could say there's two billion people. But what's the proportionality? What is the percentage of people being born that are white? Where's the arrow pointing? Where are we going to be in 50 years?

In 50 years, there might be an Israel. In 50 years, there isn't going to be a white Christendom.

You don't believe people should get married, right?

I think people should get married. I'm a Christian.

You're basically anti-marriage, really. You've talked about this. You've talked about husband.

How are we done talking about white genocide

and wanting a marriage now? I'm coming to the same part because you seem very resistant to the idea of marriage. You've never got married. You've talked very scathingly about henpecked husbands. Just take a look.

That's true. Guys get to a certain age and they're like, you know what? Women suck. Like, they're talking too much. They're not hot anymore. Like, you're fat, you're chubby,

you're not as hot as you think you are. You fucking talk too much. You're a bitch. So we'll obviously get to the brazen misogyny part of that a little later. But but I'm just curious. On the one hand, this is terrible genocide going on of white people. On the other hand, you want people effectively to stop going near women because they all turn out to be so ghastly. So they shouldn't presumably procreate. So how does that work? I mean, aren't you with your rhetoric actively encouraging men not to associate

with these ghastly women, therefore not have any more children, therefore you are contributing, Nick Fuentes, to the diminishing white population? I'm confused.

I tell my followers to get married all the time. I tell them that it's best for everybody to get married. And I think that's the only way that you can have sex. I think that's the only licit way as a Catholic

is you don't have sex.

Why don't you get married then?

It's within marriage.

Why don't you get married?

I'll get married later. It's been difficult for me because people are shooting at me at my house. I don't know that I, I don't wanna have kids and a wife. You know, my wife would be screaming about that. Me, you know, I have to be able to take risks and be able to say these things.

It's difficult to bring a family into a life that's like that. But for my followers, I tell them to get married.

But what's happening with women, that's just an observation. You literally just told your followers, well, hang on, in that clip, you literally told followers, women, they get old, they get fat, they get ugly, they get very annoying. So where's the incentive to get married to women? There isn't one. You're actively telling them the opposite.

You're extrapolating, you're extrapolating a lot. I wouldn't even complain. Just quoting you back yourself again. No, no, but you're extrapolating and saying, well, you say women are annoying, so therefore what's the incentive? We have to do it in spite of the fact that they are annoying. We have to do it in spite of the fact

that they talk too much. We can get them to lose weight. We can put them on peptides. We can get them to the promised land,

but it's gonna be a little annoying. Do you think this view of women may be why none of them want to go near you?

Oh, you should see my DMs. It is quite the opposite. They're called the Groybets and I'm actually batting them away. Granted, not all of them are attractive. Some of them are attractive.

Are you actually? Just to clear up one of the many theories about you. I've no idea what the answer is and you haven't got an answer. But are you actually attracted to women? I am attracted to women. You're not gay?

No, but I will say that women are very difficult to be around.

Okay. So there's that. And do you think they should have the right to vote?

I do not, no, absolutely not.

They should stay at home?

Well, yeah, absolutely not. They should stay at home? Well, yeah, absolutely.

So basically, you're just a misogynist old dinosaur, aren't you, for a young guy? I mean, I know I'm the boomer here, but actually, you're a 27-year-old dinosaur, aren't you? Aren't you, Nick Fuentes?

All women are annoying. All women grow old. They all get fat. Says the guy, have you ever had sex?

No, absolutely not.

Wow, says the guy who's never got laid.

Wow. That's the thing though, you boomers, it's always get laid, free love. You think you're an expert on women

given you've never got laid?

Yeah, we are going back to the Stone Age. You're absolutely right. You're talking about empathy and your kids are empathetic and they would never laugh at a joke about the Holocaust and you're a misogynist

You're a simp yourself. You're totally hand-packed. That's the problem

Another clip of yours about women a

Lot of women want to be raped. And when I say raped, I mean like, that sounds bad when I say it like that. But there's like a lot of women that really want a guy to beat the shit out of them. But also they have to pretend, but part of it is they have to pretend like they don't.

You think women want to be raped, do you?

That's what the studies show, Piers. That is what these statistics say.

But that's what you believe, is it?

They have fantasies. They have fantasies about it. I don't think that they want to actually get raped. But there is a study out there. Get ready for this. It says 62% of women have rape fantasies.

And if you read anything that they're reading, if you watched what they're watching, what do you think Fifty Shades of Grey is about? What do you think Twilight is about? I mean, that's just true.

You think women wanna have the shit beaten out of them,

as you said?

Yeah, and it's very disturbing, but it's true.

Do you think your views on women might change if you actually ever had a relationship with one or had sex and actually had a relationship with one or had sex and that she had a proper relationship. I mean, people say the reason you're so angry about women is you're basically an incel.

I'm not angry about it.

You sound very angry. You sound very, very angry about women. I'm passionate.

It's an issue I'm passionate about.

You're not passionate.

You're actually, you're sounding very bitter about women, as if women have done a terrible disservice to you. But when? You don't have relationships, you don't have sex. When are they doing these terrible things to you

that's made you so hateful towards women? I'm really curious.

Was that, I don't think that was a hateful clip. I think I was laughing. I said, they want men to beat the shit out of them. And that's just true. I mean, when you look at the state of modern women, all they do is lay in their bed, doom stroll, they're chilling out, they're getting a little, look, they're getting a little fat. It is what it is. I don't know what the average weight is, but they're getting a little heavy. And any guy that is playing the field these days

will tell you that. I mean, and I know a lot of the Chads. I am an incel, I'm friends with a lot of Chad's like Bradley Martin, Clavicular, they agree with me. You know, there's sort of like this alliance between the guys that don't have sex and the guys that get the most sex. We know what women are about, it's the guys in the middle.

Guys like you in the middle, it's the beta male orbiters that say, she's amazing, you're a misogynistic pig, because I don't know what that is. I guess they're-

Well, come on, let me explain to you, let me explain to you what I think it is. I think when a 27 year old guy who's never got laid, never had a meaningful relationship with a woman, says that women shouldn't be allowed to vote, they should stay at home,

that all they do is fantasize about being raped and being beaten up. That's what they want. That they're annoying, that they get fat, that they get ugly. That's a misogynist. Now, you may not understand it, because your knowledge of women is so incredibly tiny. But actually, you are the embodiment of a misogynist. It couldn't be clearer.

And if I was a, you know, in a way, you have the deep rooted misogyny of some of the actual boomers I know. Yeah, here you are 27 years old. And most of the current studies show that a lot of men are really disenfranchised from society,

no longer have physical relationships with women if they've ever had them, never associate with women and build up instinctively misogynist views about women. And I fear you're in that position. You're just a bit of a lonely guy

who wants to get laid and can't for whatever reason. And it's made you bitter about women. And I don't know where that's come from, but it's fascinating.

No, see, here's the thing. First of all, you're very caught up in the labels. It's always you're a racist, you're a misogynist. You said you were a racist. These words mean nothing to me. Hang on, whoa, can I respond?

You gave yourself the label. What is this? You said I am a racist. I am a racist. Calm down. Calm down.

Did you or didn't you?

It's okay.

Did you? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

But here's the thing. So I didn't give you the label.

You did.

Why are you yelling at me?

Because you're trying to infer something that didn't happen. You said I gave you the label of being a racist. No, you did. You said I'm a racist. You gave yourself a label.

You're gonna have to tone it down a little, all right? You're gonna have to bring it down a notch and relax. This is just an interview, okay? Please calm down. All I said is you're hung up. I didn't say you gave me that.

Maybe I did. You did. But here's what I mean is you're just hung up on say, on proving you're okay, you're a misogynist, okay, you're a racist, okay, you denied the Holocaust and I'm just, I'm not about the labels, man.

You didn't deny the Holocaust.

I'm just past that.

As I said to you, look, Nick, as I said to you, I just wanted to go over the stuff that you know everyone uses out there about you and get you to respond. And we're getting, we are getting, I think, a long way in this interview. Right? You didn't deny the Holocaust. You accepted there's been a Holocaust of at least 6 million Jews.

I'm a maximalist. I'm a Holocaust.

That is significant. You did admit you're a racist. And you have spelled out a thought process about women, which is the purest definition of misogyny that I've ever seen. And you said you're not gay. So we're getting somewhere.

Yeah.

Well, look, and I own the labels, okay? But I just don't care that much about that. I feel like the whole, this is like a weird-

I'm not saying you have to care. Nick, you don't have to care about any of it. I promise you. That's not why I got you on the show. I wanted to give you a fair crack, which I think I had. We've gone over a lot of stuff. I agree. We've got a bit more to go on.

I genuinely don't think I've ambushed you with anything you couldn't have been expecting. No. I don't think I've been overly hostile. In fact, when you've asked me to calm down, I've match with you. I simply want you to spell out exactly what you've meant about all these things, and people can then be the judge of them.

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You began your show in 2017, the same year as Trump was inaugurated for his first term in office. You supported him at that time, but you've grown increasingly disillusioned, I think it'd be

fair to say. Let's play a recent clip from you about Trump. We played this game in the first term. We're 10 years in and you still have these people. I hate to say it, but they're just like in denial and they're like, OK, everybody, let's all go on Twitter and let's tell Trump, don't screw over your

voters.

Okay, hey, Trump, don't hire John Ratcliffe in the CIA. Like what are we doing? It's we lost, it's over. The time to make demands was during the election when he needed the votes. He's a lame dog president and he doesn't need anything from us. He's not even on Twitter.

He's on Truth Social. So what are you talking about? We're gonna all rally and tell him, don't hire yet another neocon?

Now over the weekend, you posted this on X. You said, performative cruelty is the perfect phrase to characterize the Trump admin and the mood of the MAGA movement. In order to compensate for his compromises and failures, Trump has to fall back on mean spiritedness to appeal to the basest instincts of his followers.

It's really sad. I mean, do you think you're the best person, Nick Fuentes, to lecture people about performative cruelty?

Why?

Are you accusing me of being cruel? Is that what that is? Yeah. I think I'm a very performative person. I think I'm a very performative person. I think I'm a very performative person.

I think I'm a very performative person. I think I'm a very performative person.

I think I'm a very performative person.

I think I'm a is performative. I'm authentic. You know, whatever you want to say about me, it's real. It's from the gut. But yes, I do think it's performative. And what I mean by that is, you know, when they're doing the deportations, they know the deportations are not where

the base wants them to be. They deported, the figures are disputed, but from my data, it's 300,000 in the year, which is not a massive deportation. They know the base is unhappy with that. So what do they do? The deportations that they are carrying out,

they do a big spectacle and they arrest everybody and they film it and they put a hype at it. And there's a meanness in there. They played that song, I think from Sabrina Carpenter or something. And they make it a joke, they make it glib. And they do that because they're not delivering

on the promise, so they compensate by doing it meaner, edgier, more mean-spirited, so that the base will overlook the fact that it's not happening. And I think that's by definition performative cruelty. You can call me a hypocrite, but it's definitely true about what they're doing in the administration. You went to see Trump at Mar-a-Lago with Ye for dinner.

What was that like? It was very interesting. They're my two heroes. Ye is my hero. Trump is my hero. Even though he's very disappointing, he's still a personal hero of mine.

And he's a remarkable person. It was a great conversation. We got along pretty well. He liked me, I liked him. It was a love fest.

I mean, he got attacked afterwards for supping with the white supremacist devil. I mean, do you accept you are a white supremacist?

No, no, absolutely not.

You don't think white people are superior to black people?

No, I'm a Christian. So I believe everybody is equal before God.

Including women?

Yes.

So you give women equal rights then?

No. Great, great, okay.

So you just talked a lot of bullshit, didn't you?

No, what is, why are you like mad about this?

No, women and men are different.

You want women to be treated equally before God, but you don't want wanna give them equal rights.

Yeah, because women and men are different. Do you believe there are two genders?

It's your view.

Do you think there's two genders?

I do think there are two genders, yes.

Okay, and so you mean there's distinction, there are two distinct genders. Well, if they're meaningfully distinct, biologically distinct, and they have different social and biological roles, I think it would follow that we would treat them a little bit differently in the law.

Do you think the Catholic Church's teachings reflect that?

I do. Yeah. There's no female priests.

Have you ever seen that? Do you think that the Catholic Church thinks all women should be deprived of the vote?

Yeah, I think so.

No, they don't.

I think they do, yeah.

You think the Catholic Church position is women shouldn't be allowed to vote?

I think so, yeah, but I'm not positive.

No, it's bullshit.

Oh, it should be.

It should be. So if you were Pope, that's what you'd do. You could be Pope, because you're celibate. That's true.

And I'm also from Chicago, like the Pope. But look, I mean, women, it says in the Bible that women have no authority over men, and they can't teach men. And that's why there's no female priests. So there's a lot of things in the Bible. So I don't think the Catholic... Well, yeah, it's inspired scripture. All of it is sacrificed.

The theological debate?

Well, it is Catholic doctrine that women should not lead and teach. I mean, you're not interacting with what I'm saying. Why can't women be priests? They should be. Okay, well, you're not Catholic. That's not a Catholic position.

I am a Catholic. Many things I disagree with the Catholic Church.

Okay. Well, that kind of is contrary because the whole basis of being Catholic is accepting, yes, it's accepting the authority of the Pontiff.

You can be a member of a religion and disagree with parts of that religion. Perfectly reasonable.

You could be, well, yeah, I mean, you could say that,

but it wouldn't be true. If you're an extremistist you can't obviously you never deviate. It's just not rigorous. You never deviate if you're an extremist. But even the Constitution, even the Constitution's been amended was it 27 times? People talk about this sacrosanct document.

It's like been amended 27 times.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah. Oh my this is not rigorous intellectually. This is very tabulate.

Just a statement of fact.

Theology. OK. OK, but it's fine. Where were we? We're talking about Trump. Somehow we got into white knighting for women's rights.

On Trump, I think women should have the same rights as you and I. You don't.

That's fine. Put on the pink hat, bro. Put on the pink hat.

We're waiting.

What's the pink hat for?

For the march, for the women's rights and all that? I think women should have equal rights to men, period. You carry tampons in case your female friends get a period or something? Like, it's crazy. The white knighting is diabolical.

I'd have no problem giving a female friend a tampon. Would you? Have you ever, I don't suppose you've ever seen a tampon.

Have you?

Gross, absolutely not. Get that away from me. Dampons are gross. Yeah, they're filled with period blood. Yeah, it's kind of gross. Wow. Are you into that?

You like that?

Have you ever seen a lot of dampons?

I don't think you've ever seen it, have you?

I've seen them.

I've seen them before. You've been that close to a woman?

Really?

No, I've seen videos, haven't you? What? What are we doing here, Piers? I'm not sure.

You really hate that.

I'm not sure, Nick. You're more impressed that I'm a misogynist than you are about anything.

It's really revealing.

Not really. I'm actually more exercised about your blatant self-admitted racism than I am about anything. But the misogyny runs a close second. Let me ask you about Tucker Carlson because you had a long sit down with Tucker Carlson in which he was oddly, I like Tucker, we got Omar was with him last week in London, but he gave me a hard time and he gives you

and then afterwards he was more critical. And then you said this about Tucker.

He's a handler, he handles people. That's what he does. He's a fucking liar and a handler. He handles people. That's what he does. He's a fucking liar and a handler. He goes around telling people, I don't know anything. I don't know. Oh, I know nothing. I don't even have a phone. I am just a clueless tourist. I just traveled to all these countries and you know, I don't trust him and I don't, and I don't care, you know, maybe that alienates me from people in the

conservative movement. I don't care. I'm not going to be a part of it. I'm not going to be a party to whatever that is, whatever that CIA bullshit is. I'm not going to be a part of it. So you know, now that I've, I've heard enough from Tucker and I've heard enough from other people and I've seen enough,

this guy's not who he says he is, not an ally, stay the fuck away from me. You're weird, dude. You're weird.

See, what would have been great is if you'd said that to him when you were sitting opposite him.

Well, when I was sitting opposite him at the dinner and in the interview, he was nothing but nice. He was very nice to me and very cordial, and he didn't call me an anti-Semite, and he didn't even press me on it at all. And I thought he would, and I almost wanted him to. He was nothing but nice, and we had a great time. We had a really great dinner, really great interview, and I felt really good about it. And the next week on my show, I said, he really surprised me, he's great. And then every interview he's done since, all he does is call me an anti-Semite.

He goes, well, I hate his anti-Semitism and I wonder why people like him. And so I just think that's two-faced. So after that experience, it kind of turned me off. I didn't like that. But he's going to do what he's going to do. He's still a nice guy, but I think he's two-faced. What about Candice Owens? You had a sit down with her. She called you out on a few of your more incendiary comments. You've been attacking her quite virulently recently. What's going on there? Well, you know, it's me and her, we're so complicated.

We're on and off. It's very passionate on both sides. You know, I think there's this intense desire to be friends, but a frustration where we disagree with each other. There's a rivalry. But I thought we were going to have a friendly conversation, and then she kind of did the

same thing. We're going to go a friendly conversation. And then she kind of did the same thing. We're going to go on a show during the war with Iran. We're literally in the middle of a war. And she text me the day before the United States bombed Fordow. And she said, would you like to come on my show? I said, absolutely.

I said, is this going to be about Iran? She goes, I let's do it. I come on the show and then she's like, got this weird hostile demeanor. She's doing the clip thing. Then she puts it behind a paywall. It was ridiculous. So that really was not nice.

And then I think this whole Charlie Kirk thing, I think she's gone insane. I think she's absolutely lost her mind. So I feel sorry for her husband.

What did you feel when Charlie Kirk was assassinated? Where were you when you heard about it?

I was at my house and a friend of mine who was actually at the event texted me and said, Charlie got shot. I said, who? He said, Charlie Kirk. I said, oh my gosh, that's terrible.

And honestly, it was devastating. I didn't like Charlie Kirk at all. And we had an intense rivalry and he hated me. But honest to God, I was devastated. I was emotionally affected by it. I didn't even do a show that night

because I was beside myself. So it was rough. I mean, it was hard to watch.

When you say you were beside yourself, I mean, you hated him.

I don't hate anybody. I didn't hate him, but we, I really didn't like him. I intensely disliked him. He called you vermin, didn't he? He did. Yeah. He hated me also. But you were still beside yourself when you heard what happened to him? I was. I was. I thought it was, it was disgusting what was done to him and it was tragic and it was horrifying. Do you fear an attack like that on yourself if you up your own security because of this?

Because your profile has got exponentially higher since what happened to Charlie Kirk.

I have. I have increased my security. And but you know something similar like that happened to me. Someone came to my house with a gun about a year ago, almost exactly, trying to kill me and he was shot and killed in my alleyway. So I've had increased security for a while. It's a bad time out there.

And I do believe it was a left-wing person that killed him. I think it was a left-wing person that tried to kill me.

So yeah, I take it very seriously. Elon Musk said on his his ex platform that you're a fed, that you're a paid up hire of the government.

Is that true?

No.

A hundred, but you've never worked for the government in any capacity?

I've never talked to federal law enforcement. And actually, I've testified to that fact under oath when I was subpoenaed by the Congress. People leave that part out. But I got subpoenaed, I think, in January 2022, I think it was. And I was deposed by the subcommittee, the House Select Subcommittee, on January 6th. And they asked me, did you speak with any federal law enforcement?

And under oath, I said no, I've never had contact with them. I've never turned over devices.

So no, absolutely not. There's been footage has come out again this week this is you at the January the 6th riots let's take a look. the people. You're heard there shouting down your loud hailer, break down the barriers and disregard the police. The capital belongs to us now. What did you mean by that?

I think it's pretty self-explanatory. The capital belongs to the people.

Disregard the police. So you don't support law and order.

No, I support law and order, but on that day, the police were brutal. The police killed somebody, Ashley Babbitt. And, you know, they were throwing people off of the rafters. They killed multiple people.

So disregarding the police is the first step to anarchy, isn't it?

Well, I think the first step to anarchy is when the government rigs the election, which is what happened. That is when the government loses its legitimacy and its enforcers consequently do also.

Because that's exactly what happened in 2020.

There is no evidence the government rigged the election. You know that.

You're a bright guy.

Well, let's talk about it. Do you want to talk about the election of 2020? Yeah.

I think Trump lost it fair and square. I think he fought the wrong argument about the Stolen Election. I've said to him, to his face, the argument he should have said is that the deliberate suppression of things like the Hunter Biden laptop scandal from the media, by social media, by big tech, was actually a deliberate attempt to subvert the result of the election.

And that is a much better argument because it's undeniable. When the New York Post that had that exclusive would basically shadow ban off all social media for the two weeks before the election, that was an absolute disgrace. And if I was Donald Trump, I would focus on that as being my main argument that that election

was slanted against him. When he goes off into saying that there was widespread rigging and voter systems were wrong, we've litigated all this now. Through various court cases, various Republican judges have ruled there was no rigging of that kind. In fact, the American election system

is accepted by most people around the world as being one of the best in the world, one of the most reliable. So I just think he fought the wrong argument. If he said the deliberate suppression of damaging stories to the Bidens, which could have swung the election, was

outrageous and unacceptable, I'm 100 percent behind him. But by building this spurious argument that it was all rigged through voting systems and so on, he lost me.

Well, I agree about the voting systems, but when they went into the machines, I think that was ridiculous. However, what has to be accounted for is that in 2016, 35% of the votes were cast by mail. By 2020, it was 70% because of the pandemic.

So you doubled the amount of votes that happened by mail. They called it in-person early voting. They called it a variety of different things. And the other thing that they changed is they solicited the mail-in ballots. So they sent ballots to people's houses. And once you do that, I mean, you have absentee balloting normally, but it's a process. You got to give your social security number, your ID. They sent it to you, there's regulations in place. This is an election where they double the amount of mail-in votes and they solicited, they send ballots to people's houses. And when you do that, you break the chain of custody. So they send the ballot out and then they tell people

return it at a 24-hour ballot drop site that's unsupervised, there's thousands of them. And they're going to hope that all the ballots that find their way into these drop boxes were filled out by the person that the ballot was intended for. And I know that didn't happen. I'll tell you why. My uncle has been dead for 26 years. He got a ballot in 2020.

It was mailed to my parents' house. And you know that was happening in nursing homes. You know that was happening in apartment buildings.

You also know that every independent body that has looked at this has concluded there was no widespread rigging, that it was a free and fair election and Trump lost. And the bottom line is he should stop going about it anyway because he won back the White House in 2024. By your, I mean, as you have been so keen to tell me,

move on, right? No one wants to look back too far.

That's a separate argument. I mean, you can say that he should stop talking about it, but whether it was rigged or not is actually relevant to what happened on January 6th. Because what happened on J6 is people were outraged about it. People were furious that, by the way, there's never been an independent ballot audit in all the states where there was

alleged to be rigging. That has not happened. And certainly it did not happen up until January 6th. And people said, this is ridiculous. They're stealing it. You know, if people honestly,

if either you or Donald Trump or anybody else wants to show me, I said this to him when I interviewed him last, you know, if you show me the, hardcore, incontrovertible evidence, then great. I've never seen it. Joe Rogan asked him. He didn't produce it with Joe Rogan. It's just never been produced.

But look, I don't want to label the point on that. I suppose the more interesting question now, as your influence rises in the conservative movement in America, and there's a lot of splits going on amongst MAGA over a number of issues. And about you, and you know this,

is your split with Trump irrevocable? Do you feel now as we head towards the year of the midterms that it's time to now look to who his successor will be? And who do you think that person should be?

Well, it's not irrevocable, but I am very pessimistic about this administration. And succession is something that I've been interested in for as long as I've been doing this show. And I think it's very clear that they are grooming JD Vance to be that successor.

And by they, I mean, Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson, Peter Thiel. There seems to be an organization that was put in place roughly around 2022 when Peter Thiel was very active in the midterm elections. He spent, I think, over $30 million, $15 million for Vance, $15 million for Masters, spent a lot of money in a lot of other congressional races trying to unseat the Republicans that voted for impeachment in 21,

and also building out a media market, building out a patronage network, funding things like Passage Press, Sovereign House, a number of other projects to create sort of like a self-contained media ecosystem. And Vance is clearly the selected nominee. That is who the interests want. And they've been pushing for him very strongly.

So I think he's the heir apparent right now. There's a forceful push. I've heard good things about him. I've heard bad things about him, too. And where I think it needs to go is I think we need to return to the message from 2016, what Trump said in the first election, which is we need to drain the swamp. We need to get the money out of politics, the super PACs, the special interests, put America first in foreign policy and the wars, close the border and deport the illegals and re-industrialize America,

bring back manufacturing, bring back jobs. We're in this cold war with China. We need America to have productive capacity again. We need America to have wealth. So I think whoever is gonna bring us back to that, that's who I'm gonna support.

And I haven't seen enough from Vance yet.

You called JD Vance's wife a jeet. What does that mean?

It's a slur for Indians.

Why would you use that?

Well, you want the honest answer?

Because you're a racist?

No, no. There's actually a different reason. The reason why I said that, if you watch the whole show, did you watch that whole show

by the way? No, but you've admitted you use that slur. I'm just curious why you would use that about a woman with her heritage.

There's a really important reason why, and this is why context matters. If you look online at the people that are supporting JD Vance the most, they are racist. They're racist also, let's say. And they look at someone like myself, I don't support JD Vance, and they say, you're brown, you're a third worldist. They are gleefully participating in the cruelty, you could say the performative cruelty of the Trump administration. They say, you're going back, you have 100 days until you're being deported.

You're going in a crystal. And then they tell us to vote for J.D. Vance. And so all I did on the show is I said, you have basically racist chuds that post memes about Indians all day on Twitter, memes about third worldists and Palestinians even. But then they wanna turn around and support a guy who has said on Twitter, how dare you say I'm racist? I have non-white kids and I'm in an interracial marriage. And all I said is that's,

I just said that's a little ironic. I said that's hypocritical. And Vance is gonna have to explain to all of his supporters who have gassed him up as the real, the real mass deportation candidate, he's gonna have to explain to them

what's going on with that. What is with the contradiction?

Because it is a contradiction.

And you don't feel any accountability for the millions of young people that will hear you use that slur and think it's fine to use it?

What are, no, no, I think that's ridiculous.

Okay, let's take a final break. I come back with a little kind of summary of how you think this interview has gone for you. Okay. If you're a fan of epic fantasy, Arthurian legend, or just epic storytelling, I have some good news for you. The Pendragon Cycle, Rise of the Merlin

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OK, Nick Fuente, we've been talking for nearly two hours. What is your view of how the interview has gone?

I think it was great. Honestly, I think it was a tough interview. You're a tough interviewer. But I don't think there were surprises. I will not say it was an ambush because it wasn't. I sort of anticipated that you would make some choices about how you wanted it to go and I was fine with it. So I thought it was terrific.

As a Catholic, you probably aware the Jerusalem Post has recently called on the Pope to openly condemn you. Would it matter to you if the Pope did? He's an American Pope, obviously.

It would be very disheartening, yes.

Why?

Because he's our spiritual leader. He's the head of the church. He's the vicar of Christ. So if he condemned me, that would be very disheartening. And it would depend upon what he would say exactly. But yeah, I wouldn't like that.

I wouldn't like that at all.

If he condemned you because you've openly admitted to being a racist on this show?

Oh, you know, this racist, I would be disappointed if he said that because I think that word racist, it means something different to everybody. And so I think that's just silly. I think that's just semantic.

Have you ever been in love in your life?

No.

No, like romantically?

No. Never? No.

Do you think that's part of the problem?

What's the problem?

Why you are the way you are.

Oh, and what's the way I am? What are you trying to say?

I've given people two hours of the way you are. You're unashamed about a lot of it.

I don't think I have a problem. I think I'm a cheerful, boisterous. Look, unlike you, I'm willing to be a little, well, I guess you're willing to be provocative, but I'm willing believer in openness. I completely agree. I think you should be perfectly free to express your opinion. I think that's what we're all about. I think that's what we're all about. I think that's what we're all about. I think that's what we're all about. I think that's what we're all about.

I think that's what about being intellectually open. I'm a believer in openness. I completely agree.

I think you should be perfectly free to express yourself exactly how you see fit. My problem is how you see fit with some of the things that you say. And we've been through a lot of them. And I think people who don't know you very well

will have been shocked in parts and surprised in other parts, but in totality, they can see you for what you are. I think we've got a lot nearer to what the real Nick Fuentes is in the last two hours than we probably have seen from your other recent interviews. Would you agree?

No, I mean, the clip thing, we've done the clip thing. We've all seen the clip show. Everyone's seen the clips. You think you're the first one to do the ADL rap sheet. So here you said this, and then here you said that. I've been playing that game for 10 years.

So this is honestly more of the same, to tell you the truth.

Nick Fuentes, I appreciate you coming on Uncensored. Thank you very much.

Thank you for having me.

Well, my thanks to Nick Fuentes and my thanks to the hundreds of thousands of you watching this special live episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored. As I said during the interview, I think it was firm but fair, but you can all make up your own minds. If you like what you do, please like and subscribe the channel so that we can keep doing it. I'm back tomorrow. Until then, whatever you're up to, keep it Uncensored. ♪♪ subscribe the channel so that we can keep doing it. I'm back tomorrow. Until then, whatever you're up to, keep it Uncensored. ♪♪

♪♪ So ♪♪