Why Canada is standing up to Trump | The Global Story

I mean, in all fairness to them, they need us to survive.Without us, there's no way they can survive.

Do Canadians still feel like they can rely on their closest ally?the United States of America.On Sunday, the Prime Minister of Canada, Mark Carney, was watching the World Cup final from a glass -enclosed VIP box with President Trump.And for a few moments, everything seemed kind of okay between the U .S.and Canada.

But after the match, Trump told reporters that he had delivered a blunt message to his Canadian counterpart.

coming in and poisoning our air.Our air has been poisoned.

Back in Canada, Carney told reporters that he had made it very clear to Trump that his country is doing what it can.And then the situation got even more intense.A day after all those smiles and handshakes at the World Cup final, Trump slapped Canada with a bunch of new tariffs.

Canada's been very, very tough on us over the years, for many years.No other president's done anything like that.

What does the American president actually want from Canada?And how are Canadians feeling about their neighbor to the South?Today on the show, we try to answer some of those questions.From the BBC, I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D .C., and welcome to The Global Story on YouTube.

My name is Jamie Poisson.I host the CBC's Daily News podcast from Ferber.

Wonderful.Well, it's a treat to have you with us.And I'm really excited because I've heard so much about this beef between the United States and Canada from the perspective of Americans.And quite candidly, Jamie, I've heard a lot less about what Canadians are thinking in this moment.And I wanted to hear from a Canadian journalist.So I really appreciate you taking the time.

Well, we have quite a perspective, and it's very different from the U .S.perspective.

So thanks for letting me share it.Let's start with President Trump's announcement earlier this week.in which he laid out these plans to impose 50 % tariffs on a range of goods that are coming into the United States from Canada.

Canada's been very, very tough on us over the years, for many years, and no other president's done anything about it.

He said it was in response to unequal treatment.

I mean, in all fairness to them, they need us to survive.Without us, There's no way they can survive.But they've been very, very tough over the period of the last 50 years, actually.

Jamie, what sorts of goods do these latest tariffs apply to?And what is the sense in Canada as to why he is doing this at this particular moment?

Right.So it covers a lot of stuff.I saw one list with 500 things on it.A 50 % tariff.So that's pretty prohibitive.But essentially, these are three presidential decrees that came down.

And one of the decrees was mainly targeting our dairy industry.A lot of our dairy is already closed off to the U .S.market.It's a system here that we call supply management.The other one is targeting alcohol.

Our provinces took American booze off the shelves of our liquor stores after the first round of tariffs.So last year.And then the third is targeting autos because the U .S.administration says that we are discriminating against U .S.

auto parts.And this one actually doesn't target auto parts, though, really.It targets a whole bunch of other stuff.Hockey sticks, cement, wigs, Christmas decorations.They're saying, OK, you're going to discriminate against us with autos.We're going to hit you with a bunch of other stuff.

How has the Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney responded to all of this?

Yeah, I mean, so he released a pretty measured response.that this is the latest in a string of escalations or unilateral actions from the United States to Canadacontravene USMCA.

That is the big trade deal that was essentially agreed upon during President Trump's first term.It's been up for renewal, and the Trump administration recently said that they don't intend to renew the deal as it currently stands.

Yes, it's like lapsed that renewal.He said that we are in a position to negotiate and we would like to move to more formal talks, but he hasn't announced that he's going to do anything kind of countermeasures.Right now, he's just saying, you know, we're ready to proceed to negotiations.Him and Trump apparently spoke Tuesday morning and that he reiterated that.

You know, J .B., we've mentioned the talks a couple of times here.The talks that you mentioned, Carney is referring to, they stem from that big trade deal, the United States -Mexico -Canada agreement, which, as I mentioned, was actually negotiated during Trump's first term in the White House.

He called it a great deal at the time.

He did.He did.I remember there were remarks in, I believe it was the Rose Garden.It was really heralded by his administration as a better agreement than the landmark deal that had been in place for many years prior, known as NAFTA.And I think what's interesting is in this moment, we are seeing the Trump administration decide not to renew the deal.as it stands.

And so as you say, there's these ongoing talks around a new deal.Why, from Canada's perspective, have these talks been so contentious?

If you try and read the tea leaves of the American administration, they think that Canada has been obstinate and that we haven't given up enough to kind of get to these negotiations.You know, when they were putting these tariffs on us this week, the message from the White House was that Canada and China are the only two countries that haven't negotiated a deal with the United States after thoseinitial round of tariffs.From the Canadian perspective, there are a lot of people here that will argue that we have capitulated quite a lot.We've rolled back taxes on some of the big tech giants.We've dropped counter tariffs quietly.

What does the United States really want from us?They want us to open up the dairy industry.American dairy cannot be sold in Canada.

And what is Canada's explanation for that?

I mean, it's a way to kind of protect our own dairy industry.It's a system called supply management here.And proponents of it would argue that, you know, it's a way to keep prices stable for farmers here.So it's a controversial policy in Canada, too.But the Trump administration hates it.

So you're saying when the Trump administration hates it, they want American dairy farmers to be able to sell their milk, their dairy products.their cheese, etc. into Canada.And right now...

Very hard to do.

That's not possible.And in Canada, the current dairy laws, do people think that...I mean, I guess you're saying that there's differences of opinion.There are some Canadians who do think that the market ought to be opened up.And you're saying, though, there are many who believe that the current system is is fair to Canadian farmers.

Yes, exactly.That's one that they complain a lot about.Another is that they seem to want to be building and creating cars, really.much more in the United States.So they complain about how, you know, integrated that system is.

Whereas right now some car parts are made, you're saying, in Canada.The supply chains are kind of interlinked between the U .S.

and Canada.It's an incredibly integrated system here.I think there's another thing going on here, too, which is that if you look at the foreign policy of this administration, it sees Canadaa kind of vassal state in North America.And I do not think that this administration likes some of what our government has been doing over the last year, going out and making deals with other countries, including China, including India, including Europe, on security issues, but also on trade.I think it's worth pointing out that there was recently some reporting in The Wall Street Journal that cast Prime Minister Mark Carney as this guy who's sort of leading this charge of middle powers to try and help reorient middle powers in the world away from the United States.

And so, you know, you've got to wonder if some of that is going on here as well.

Before we move on, I think the foreign policy stuff is really interesting.I just want to make sure I understand something about the trade deal itself in particular, because I have heard critics here in Washington say that both Mexico and Canada, to some degree, they don't think have fully upheld the terms of the existing deal.And so there is, in their view, room for improvement in the deal.Do you hear that in Canada as well?Or were they happy with the deal as it was?

No, I think generally People in Canada, experts in Canada were pretty happy with the deal.I think that what they really want is a renewal of QSmart or USMCA.I should say we use different We call them different things.We use different acronyms.

We like CUSMA because it starts with Canada a bit.And they like USMCA because it starts with the U .S.

But they don't want this kind of yearly renegotiation, which puts CUSMA in a kind of or USMCA in a kind of zombie position, creates a lot of uncertainty because it can always change.Right.They want to lock back into a long term deal because that will that will create stability.

So how has the Canadian government, Canadian leadership been interpreting this latest move?from the Trump administration?I mean, you alluded to hefty tariffs last year.This began many, many months ago.So is this latest announcement seen as, I don't know, a negotiation tactic?Is it seen as a serious economic problem?

A bluff?None of the above?

Yeah, I mean, I wonder if in some ways it could be seen as all three, right?Because I think it's widely being interpreted as a negotiation strategy to try and get Canada to the table and to try and get them to make some concessions.But it is also a very serious economic threat.One estimate I think I saw this morning was that this could affect $28 billion worth of goods across the country.So if these tariffs do take effect in 30 days, they could have serious repercussions here.

And we should be clear as you say 30 days, because the executive order did not call for this to begin immediately, right?They called for this to begin in 30 days.

Which I think is why people are also interpreting this as a negotiation strategy, right?Because it's opened up a window.The clock is ticking down, even though Trump seems to blow past these deadlines all the time.But, you know, Immediately when these tariffs came down, you did see people talk about whether or not they were legal, because they're under this provision in this century -old law.It's like Section 338 of the Smoot -Hawley tariffs.If people have ever watched Ferris Bueller's Day Off, there's that very famous scene from Ferris Bueller where he talks about the Smoot -Hawley tariffs.

And it's never actually been used before.And it gives the president the opportunity as I understand it, this kind of authority to put tariffs on a country that they believe is discriminating against the United States.So people were like, well, are these even legal?But I mean, I just got off the phone with an expert who thinksthat these tariffs could be more legally sound or have a better chance of surviving a court challenge than the other tariffs that he had previously put on, those emergency tariffs that were slapped on us and just about everybody else that the Supreme Court later threw out.So I think that the Canadian government has no choice but to take this as a very serious serious economic threat as well.

You know, it is also possible that he's just kind of thrashing about here, that he's trying to to bring us to the table and get some concessions.So I do think I would imagine that all of these scenarios are playing out right now.And I've seen people championing like various strategies from ignore this to give them something like put the booze back on the shelves to fight back.So it's not clear to me what the Carney government's going to do.But, you know, it seems right now like they're taking a bit of a cautious, cautious approach.

Not putting any retaliatory tariffs in place on products coming in from the United States?

No, not yet.

Yeah.

Yeah.Though that is, I will say, that is an option that we have because there are some, pardon the pun, like actual Trump cards that Canada holds, things that potash, which the United States really needs for fertilizer to grow food, critical minerals, and oil.But we haven't pulled any of those levers yet, and it's complicated because we're in a federation and the provinces would have a say over what we do with those products.But I mean, these are the big cards that we have not put in play, that the Canadians have not put in play.

That is really fascinating.We know that the president is.is very keen on minerals.We've done a number of stories about his focus on minerals in different parts of the world.One of our BBC colleagues, Eloise, was out in Montreal the other day asking Canadians about this latest tariff threat.And she heard this.

Everyone's affected by the tariffs.

It's made the prices of supplies and material more unpredictable and more expensive.It will affect the common people, you know, like you, me and everyone.

What the tariffs say about the relationship between Canada and the US is that it's definitely strange.I think it's really a relationship that is on the decline.

Every decision being taken at the moment by our neighbours to the south is just sad for the entire world.Canada should not give up.We should continue to negotiate with the US and try to, you know, maybe get some sense into them.

When Trump announced tariffs in this second term of his White House, back in February of 2025, It seemed at that time to provoke this big rally around the flag.effect in Canada.What are you hearing now from Canadians?

You know, this kind of rise in Canadian nationalism, it ebbs and flows, you know, with the headlines, right?And so things kind of go back to a bit of normalcy, and then something new will happen.And, you know, I think people kind of snap back to it.But at the same time, up until now, a lot of these tariffs have been exempt under CUSMA or thrown out.And so while certain sectors have been hit quite hard, steel and aluminum, softwood, lumber, we haven't really seen sort of the catastrophic effects.I don't know what would happen and how Canadians' attitudes might change if we started to see some real economic hits here.

Because the truth is, is that the United States is the much bigger player here.And these tariffs, of course, will hurt their economy, too.But they can hurt us a lot more than than we can hurt them.

Even after President Trump announced this latest round of 50 percent tariffs.It does appear like he's not entirely done.

You increased tariffs on Canada yesterday.Can you say if you still expect to impose tariffs on the wildfire problem?And can you say when you might impose 301?A lot of damage has been done.

He was speaking to reporters at the White House on Tuesday, and he seemed to suggest that he's still considering tariffs against Canada for these massive wildfires.

They're not managing their forests properly, and the wind has a tendency to blow.

I'm sure so many listeners have seen photos of this all.If you have somehow not seen the photos, you should.Go look them up.They kind of look otherworldly.

They don't seem to be able to do anything about it.If they managed their forests, they wouldn't have the fires.

There were some reports that cities like Detroit and Chicago in the Midwest had some of the worst air quality in the world the other week.And so what we've heard from President Trump is a frustration.

Well, it went good, but I told him, I mean, you've got to stop these fires from coming in and poisoning our air.Our air has been poisoned.I have a good relationship with Mark Carney.You know, we got to stop the fires up there.If we can help them, we'll help them.But maybe they should pay us some damages or something or we should do some tariffs.

He's made a number of comments over the last several days about these fires.But my question to you, Jamie, is does President Trump have a point at all about Canada's fire management?

OK, so you're right.It has been kind of apocalyptic.here as well.I live in Toronto.And last week, Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.It was like hazy.

It was awful.And these fires up in northern Ontario have been devastating.First Nations communities have had to flee their homes.But this idea that it's Canada's fault that there's smoke in parts of the United States, according to experts I've spoken to, is absurd.I mean, first of all, there have also been fires in the United States that have been contributing to air quality.But also, the reason that we are seeing the fires is the reason that most people probably think we are seeing the fires, we are part of a warming climate and that the real culprit here is climate change.

Experts I talked to will point out the United States is an enormous contributor to that.And you know, the reason that they sensibly slapped the first round of tariffs on us, those emergency tariffs that were later struck down, was because fentanyl was, you know, pouring into the United States across our border.This is information that is not backed up by any kind of data whatsoever.So, I mean, I don't think it is a surprise to hear the president's comments, but I haven't spoken to anyone that feels that they're grounded in any kind of reality.

Jimmy, do people in Canada feel like the wildfires are being handled effectively and sufficiently?And the reason I ask this is I remember a couple of years ago, I think it was in 2023, when there were these epic fires right across parts of Canada at that time period.And I recall reading some critiques in the United States about that response at the time where you had American firefighters going in to assist, saying that the way that they wereis handled is that it's by provinces and that there's not a sort of federalized forest management system.Now, I'm not familiar enough, to be honest, with with bureaucracy and forest firefighting in Canada.But is there no federalized firefighting system in Canada?

And do people feel like the response has been sufficient?and effective.

I mean, I think for sure these latest fires, there has been like an enormous amount of critique levied against various governments for terrible warning systems and not helping with evacuations.I've heard for years people call for more of a centralized federal, like response to fire management.

So right now is the fire management usually per province?

And the feds come and help.They always do help.I see.I'm not an expert on this, but I think that this is becoming quite real for us now because every year the fires are just getting worse and worse.

And I'm curious, when we talk about the wildfires, how Canadian politicians have, if at all, responded to what we are hearing from this Trump White House about the wildfires.

I think it's generally being dismissed as kind of more, you know, absurd bluster from the president of the United States.We've been pretty used to the last several years being the target of whatever kind of pet issue.the president has, probably more so than in Europe.I guess our proximity has put us in the line of fire probably more than most.Also, because of the timing, because of the the Kuzma deadline having just passed, you know, I think people are probably seeing it as acontext as well, that the president has, I guess, turned his attention back to Canada.

We talked about Carney's response.The other person I've seen in some American networks over the last several months responding to Trump is the leader of Ontario, Doug Ford.In fact, he was on CNN just the other day referring to the president's comments as being unacceptable.He's someone, it seems, who has been really vocal.And in seeing his comments about the wildfires, it felt like a reminder that this is all just the latest chapter in an ongoing feud between the United States and Canada.In fact, last fall, we did an episode when Doug Ford ran an anti -tariff ad on U .

S.television markets during the World Series.You know, really caught a lot of people's attention.

Yeah.I mean, that was so Doug Ford ran this ad.It was Ronald Reagan talking about the importance of free trade.And the Trump administration hated it and wanted us to pull it down.It didn't get pulled down right away.It ran during the World Series.

I mean, our own prime minister.has quipped that that was not helpful in the ongoing negotiations with the United States.But the Ford government has taken a pretty kind of Captain Canada.You have to stand up to to a bully kind of, you know, attitude.I mentioned before that one of the big irritants that the United States has is the auto industry.Now that is largely in Ontario.

So Premier Ford is really trying to protect and stand up for that industry, which is like directly under attack.So he has different considerations than other premiers in the country.

Jimmy, I don't have a clear sense from here in Washington about what Donald Trump actually wants from Canada.And I don't think I'm alone.I am somebody who is a former White House correspondent.I have covered the Trump administration in the past.Nonetheless, it is not clear to me. I want to know from you, what is the sense from Canadians of what their neighbors, the United States, the Trump administration, actually wants from them?

I think we don't know either, right?Because it whipsaws so much.And I think that the moves that Canada has been making, which is, you know, to reorient ourselves, to go find relationships elsewhere, I think that that has angered them.And I think that you get the sense from the American administration that they see Canada as like obstinate, that we haven't, that we're ungrateful.Right.And I think that this goes back to the foreign policy that I was talking about earlier, this kind of Don Roe doctrine, where Canada has seen as, you know, they don't see it outright, but the vibe is a vassal state.

and that the United States has dominance over the Western Hemisphere, and that all of the countries in that hemisphere get certain benefits from being under the security umbrella of the United States.But also, the United States is in charge.And what it is that they want from us that we are willing to give them is unclear, I think, to a lot of people in this country right now.But I can say that, you know, public opinion is very flexible.on the side of not cutting a bad deal for Canada and not capitulating to the United States.Those threats around annexation, they made people very angry here.

I think in part because we've had this very kind of long friendship with the United States and it felt like it broke.And so I think that as a result of that, this current government has been given quite a long leash to maybe like hold out as long as they can and to try and negotiate the best possible deal without us giving up too much of our sovereignty, our sovereignty to make our own decisions around who we do business with.

I want to ask you about public opinion, because there was a poll that was published recently by the Pew Research Center of Canadian attitudes towards the United States.And it found that in 2022, 83 % of Canadians saw the United States as a reliable partner.This year, 2026, that number had plummeted to 35%.Is Canada preparing for a world in which it no longer sees the United States as a reliable partner?

I think that Mark Carney won the election in 2025 last year, in part because this is exactly what he was saying.He campaigned on the fact that the old world order was over and that we were not going to return to it.He ended up winning.winning and becoming Prime Minister, I think largely on that message and on his kind ofpromise to take on the Trump administration.And so, you know, I think that shows the Canadians.

agreed with it then, and we're still seeing support for the moves that this government is making around the world to try and reorient us away from the United States.Deals in the Middle East, deals in China, deals with Europe, security deals with Europe.I think Canadians know that you can never actually completely break that relationship, but I do not think there's a sense here that you can just go back and put the toothpaste back in the tube.It's kind of like when you're going through a breakup, like it's not, you know, it's not like a full divorce.But as somebody said to me the other week, I think on the show, you're like putting your car in your name.You know what I mean?

Like you're you're trying to hedge against where you think this could be headed.I think there was this this rupture when he was when Trump was threatening to annex us and this realization in the country that we traded like 80 something percent of our goods with the United States thinking nothing about it.that this was totally fine and that they're this completely reliable partner.And these events have really led people to open their eyes and realize that you cannot be that reliant on one person.partner.The country needs to make moves to be more resilient.

If things improve, great.But I don't see a world in which things go back to the norm.

Thank you so much, Jamie, for joining us on the show.

Thanks so much for having me.It was great to talk to you.

And that's it for The Global Story on YouTube today.Thanks as always for tuning in.And by the way, if you all enjoyed what you saw today, I've got amention that our show, The Global Story, is also an audio podcast.That's right.We are also available on BBC .

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